Terry Dresbach

Outlander Costume Designer

Books: Voyager and Beyond (spoilers, spoilers EVERYWHERE)

Home Outlander Costuming Discussion Forums General Outlander Discussion Books: Voyager and Beyond (spoilers, spoilers EVERYWHERE)

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  • #6194
    rachely
    Participant

    (I think at this point the entire forum is a giant spoiler, no?)

    Did someone want a Voyager thread?

    • This topic was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Mandy Tidwell. Reason: Changing title per request
Viewing 20 reply threads
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    • #6206
      sonyakhanum
      Participant

      Ohhhh yes! I have a hate/love relationship with Voyager and am totally undecided about how I feel about it, so it would be interesting to see what others have to say about it.

      I loved reading about Jamie’s experiences during the 20 year separation. It was so heartbreaking to read the changes in his emotional state re Claire and his place in life, and how he managed to move on. Claire’s experiences were also painful, but I don’t know if any of them had it worse than the other, the experiences were so different. Thoughts?

      I really didn’t care for the parts with the ships and the West Indies and was very uneasy about the portrayal of Mr. Willoughby, even though I understand we’re reading about him from Claire’s POV.

      • #6209
        Lori
        Participant

        Thank you for putting my thoughts into words – I agree – I especially didn’t like the West Indies.
        I’m frustrated at my attempts to put my thoughts into words – but I’ll give it a try – for me, I think the characters emotions and experiences felt more “in depth” or “real” in the Jamie/Claire separation part. In the rest of the book, I had a difficult time getting past the “outside” of the characters and their situations to what for me is the heart – the characters’ depths. Maybe I’ll just keep reading – you all do such an amazing job writing! Thanks!

    • #6234
      Katie (@bunnums)
      Participant

      I know many many in the Outlander world choose Voyager as their favorite book in the series. For me, it falls squarely in the middle of the pack and I seem to be shouted down in other corners of the Internet for daring to say so.

      There’s a lot I do like about Voyager – the opening, for instance. The poignancy of the years Jamie lives without Claire. Claire finding her calling, and herself, in Boston. The reunion and their initial rediscovery of each other as these new, older, changed people (which is what I want so much more of!).

      But then, I think, it turns into an over-the-top (if still fun) read full of hijinks instead of the character study and emotional explorations I enjoy and that can make DG’s writing so unique and compelling. I mean, it feels like once Jamie leaves Claire in bed in the brothel that first morning until they wash up on shore in Georgia they don’t have time to just *be* and breathe. Just not my thing.

      Still well written, I think, but not my preferred type of storytelling.

      • #6240
        Lori
        Participant

        Katie and khenlow – thanks – what you said.

    • #6236
      Katie (@bunnums)
      Participant

      But I’m also fascinated by DG’s craft and talent for writing that she can make the tone and flavor of each book in the series so unique. It makes sense that different books will appeal to different people in different ways, and there’s nothing wrong with that!

      • #6252
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        Each book is pretty unique, eh? It’s one reason why I have trouble picking a favourite, there are definitely some that make the top of my list, but it’s still difficult to choose my #1.

      • #6284
        AllisonL
        Participant

        Outlander and Voyager are my favorites (so far, I’m on Breath of Snow and Ashes so I have two more to go, then #9)not just because of the reunion, but because for once DG gets to the emotional core of those two characters in a way she doesn’t seem to do elsewhere. And I agree with everyone that the whole West Indies thing was too rushed and breathless, I wanted J and C to just stay in bed for a few weeks and chill. I hated Fiery Cross; it was the book that bored me so much that I abandoned the entire series for more than a decade. The TV series led me back to the books and I finally slogged my way through FC. Breath of Snow and Ashes is a big snoozefest so far, there is no plot, only a series of happenings and events in the lives of the residents of Fraser’s Ridge. I am happy that there’s more sex in this one, though, FC was a sexual desert. How can you have access to that magical scotish penis and not use it? Jeez. And for the record, I don’t count any sexual relations between Roger and Brianna as “sex,” since I can’t stand either character and the thought of them canoodling sets my teeth on edge.

      • #6287
        rachely
        Participant

        I sort of never think of them as separate books but as one, big book.

        Is BOSAA the one where there’s the rape, a little person, viral meningitis, Lizzie’s polyamory, Malva & everything that goes with her, the arrest?

        That one was fucking ridiculous. Was the snake in this one?

      • #6319
        AllisonL
        Participant

        Rachel—yes, all that and a big bag of Roger becoming a minister. And Claire getting kidnapped not once, but twice. No snake, though, unless you’re referring to that large one eyed creature in Jamie’s breeches, we did see quite a bit of that one (and not unwelcome, I might add).

      • #6321
        AllisonL
        Participant

        Oh, and we must not forget the Jenny/Ian BSDM/dom/submissive thing. That was so out of left field for me I had to put down the book and walk away.

      • #6333
        rachely
        Participant

        I think I blocked the Jenny/Ian/thrashing thing.

        I felt like that book was a bunch of different scenes DG had written and then lumped them all together.

      • #6320
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        If you’re referring to the snake bite incident with Jamie, I think that was in Fiery Cross.

      • #6323
        michellibell
        Participant

        No, I think she is referring to Jenny and Ian’s sexcapades.

        Because Ian is missing a leg, Jenny lets him tie her up and beat her a bit during sex. To make him feel more like a man. IDK.

      • #6334
        rachely
        Participant

        yes, the snake bite. if I remember then FC must have been: bonnet, women masterbate, slaves, that weird scene with the goat lady, roger hanged, snake bite, and prob other stuff i can’t remember.

        Amy, this is one of the reasons I loved the Into the Wilderness books. Shit happens, but because the books are so far apart in time you know that they had like 10 years of peace before the heavens fell.

      • #6336
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        I so don’t remember women masturbating and the goat lady…? FC also had the Gathering that took a 1/4 of the book, which was slow, but I actually quite enjoyed it (did seem to last forever though).

      • #6337
        rachely
        Participant

        Claire was masterbating waiting for Jaimie to show up after they had gotten rid of Bonnet. It was a funny scene.

        The goat lady was the woman whose husband owned the trading post and he had a stroke and she didn’t treat him and there were ghosts of the husband’s other wives, and she had a half-black baby in the woods that Jamie offered to get for Claire. and then the goat lady disappeared until Roger found her later living off the grid with escaped slaves.

        Yup. Really. : )

        ETA: she really liked her goats. One was named Hiram and he got attacked by a panther.

      • #6338
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        Right, thanks. I must have totally blocked that goat lady story out of my mind – it was horror movie material.

      • #6340
        rachely
        Participant

        I’m glad you asked. Writing that (ridiculous) description of goat lady was pretty fun!

      • #6353
        Katie (@bunnums)
        Participant

        Claire masturbating Was near the beginning of DOA. 🙂

      • #6356
        rachely
        Participant

        [quote quote=6353]DOA[/quote]

        DOA. snort!

        (she also did it in FC. She and Jamie had a conversation about it. He’s apparently a like 40-something idiot who doesn’t realize ‘women do it too’. Has he never found a clit? SEE: MSP)

    • #6239
      khenlow
      Participant

      I love Voyager — but only upon my second read of it — the first time I found the pace too much — I just wanted Jamie and Claire to chill for a while and catch up with one another. The second time round, I was moved by the separation and desolation they each feel without one another, and the joy of their reunion… their love story is my favorite part of the series, after all!

    • #6251
      michellibell
      Participant

      I’ve spent some time in Jamaica and toured Rose Hall, so that part of the story I enjoyed. I also like when Jamie and LJG meet up at the party – but I want to bang my head on the desk at Claire’s reaction. Seriously overblown.

      • #6343
        cynthia
        Participant

        I did not realize Rose Hall was a real place or that there was a White Witch legend associated with it until I saw your post. Thank you Michelle!

    • #6253
      sonyakhanum
      Participant

      [quote quote=6251]I’ve spent some time in Jamaica and toured Rose Hall, so that part of the story I enjoyed. I also like when Jamie and LJG meet up at the party – but I want to bang my head on the desk at Claire’s reaction. Seriously overblown. [/quote]

      YES! This is one of the times out of a few where I just felt like “WTF Claire?!”

    • #6256
      michellibell
      Participant

      [quote quote=6253]

      <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>michellibell wrote:</div>
      I’ve spent some time in Jamaica and toured Rose Hall, so that part of the story I enjoyed. I also like when Jamie and LJG meet up at the party – but I want to bang my head on the desk at Claire’s reaction. Seriously overblown.

      YES! This is one of the times out of a few where I just felt like “WTF Claire?!”
      [/quote]

      OMG, there was some serious eye-rolling going on. It was like something out of my 7th grade classroom.

    • #6258
      Tucsonlady
      Participant

      Yes!!! I love Voyager. Voyager is my favorite Outlander book. (Drums of Autumn coming in a close second.) Voyager is like the polar opposite of DIA. Jamie has endured such hardship in these last twenty years and finally it’s Jamie’s turn to find some happiness. It’s always a bonus when Lord John appears in a book too. Then the fact that Jamaica also holds a special place in my heart. My honeymoon was spent in Jamaica. It’s like the icing on the cake.

    • #6261
      Zina_t
      Participant

      Hi everybody. Have been reading your posts for a while with much interest, but never had the courage to post. Please excuse my English as it is my 3rd language. I love Voyager, but agree with you that too much happens too fast. What I would really like to discuss is Jenny’s behaviour towards Claire when Jamie brought her to Lallybroch. She tried everything possible to make Claire go away and almost succeeded. Knowing her love and devotion to her brother, willingness to sacrifice a lot to ensure his wellbeing, it seems so out of character that she would rather keep him close by, regardless how deeply unhappy he was, than giving him a chance at happiness with Claire. Didn’t she feel guilty enough for orchestrating that ridiculous marriage to Laoghaire that brought Jamie nothing but misery and trouble. Your thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

      • #6275
        rachely
        Participant

        no matter how many times I’ve read it–and the scene where Jenny and Jamie are sailing to America–I still don’t really get her motivations.

      • #6283
        barbc624
        Participant

        I’ve always had a problem with Jenny in Voyager. She knows how miserable her brother was without Claire, she knows Claire saved Jamies life after he was captured, and yet she deliberately tries to drive Claire away. WTF???! Thank goodness for young Ian – he cared more for his uncle than his sister and Jamie’s so called best friend did it seemed.

        I also have a problem with Jenny and Ian just completely taking over Lallybroch and making Jamie feel like it wasn’t really his home anymore. After all he has sacrificed for them he didn’t deserve that.

        I thought she turned out to be very selfish and more concerned about herself and her own family rather than her brother. The reason she gives Claire for her actions is nothing short of lame.

        I so agreed with Claire in her opinion of Jenny where she thinks about how she gave Jenny her brother back, she told Jenny what to do to save Lallybroch, and then Jenny tried to give them both away to Laoghaire.(Did she actually say that to Jenny? I can’t remember and am too lazy to look it up tonight) I don’t know how she forgave Jenny – I’ve never been able to.

      • #6290
        cynthia
        Participant

        I hope I do not get shouted down for not agreeing with Barb, but I do not agree about Jenny. Of course Jenny is concerned for her family over her brother. This is what adults with families do. Of course she wants to keep the brother she raised and loves close to her. Jenny is not selfish. Jenny is doing the best she can under the circumstances. She found him a wife and a purpose. I do not agree that only Jamie and Claire are perfect and everyone else is bad. I have been on other forums where you can’t say anything bad about Jamie and Claire or anything good about Laoghaire and Jenny (although it appears you can’t say anything nice about DG here). There is a larger cast of characters and understanding their motivation and not keeping yourself boxed in is a much better reading experience.

      • #6322
        Tucsonlady
        Participant

        Jenny’s rationale for doing what she did never worked for me. This is one of those times in Outlander that DG’s writing gets a little thin (for me) and I question would she rewrite the scene differently if given the chance.

      • #6324
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        I agree, I was quite frustrated by Jenny. I can also see Cynthia’s point though (Cynthia, so far discussions on this forum have been quite civil and respectful and open to various opinions. So far, people have recognized that we not all agree on the same things, and that’s fine. 🙂 ) From Jenny’s perspective, her brother’s wife went AWOL for 20 years with no word about where she is or how she’s doing, or even if she cared about how Jamie was doing. I’m sure Jamie’s emotional state was painful for Jenny to witness knowing that the woman he loved just outright disappeared.

        The thing that really bothers me about Jenny is her reaction to Claire’s return. She was just plain cold. Weren’t they best friends before? I would’ve expected a bigger reaction to her return, even if Jenny was upset. And didn’t she bring Laoghaire in the picture after Claire’s return, causing a huge kerfuffle when there didn’t need to be? Jamie’s conflict between Laoghaire and Claire was his business and not for Jenny to intervene in other than providing sisterly advice. I don’t know if Jenny’s issue with Claire ever resolved, I really can’t remember.

      • #6331
        JB
        Participant

        I was frustrated about Jenny’s behavior too, mostly because all of it seemed so out of character. From the moment she appears in Voyager, Jenny is two-faced, underhanded and secretive. She never before was presented as someone who would scheme and plot, even when it came to keeping her brother near her. She also certainly didn’t seem like someone who would hold a grudge; she certainly lets all of her emotions fly quite easily in Outlander.

        I did try to rationalize it when I was reading Voyager, though. I thought perhaps she had been changed by the 20 years of tough farm living, scrabbling for food, watching her brother hunted and her husband repeatedly arrested for her brother’s actions. I can see how she might have felt that Jamie repeatedly and continuously endangered the farm and her family through his various criminal undertakings. I suppose after a couple of decades of that, you might start to get tired of it, particularly when you’ve had to accept the role you were born into — and have a passel of children to think about. I also suppose that Jenny’s necessarily more pragmatic and Jamie’s more romantic, so she could have packed up her memories of Claire and moved on — and not understood why Jamie didn’t or couldn’t.

        But that’s a lot of leaps to expect the reader (even an overly dedicated one like me) to make to justify behavior that is at odds with an established character’s character, it seems to me.

      • #6344
        cynthia
        Participant

        But that’s a lot of leaps to expect the reader (even an overly dedicated one like me) to make to justify behavior that is at odds with an established character’s character, it seems to me.

        Jenny is one of the few recurring characters who doesn’t get a POV. You’re right, JB, that we are left to fill in the blanks for her motivations. I like the character and I am inclined to invent reasons for her actions. I think it’s clear that she loves Jamie and wants the best for him and she loves her family and needs to protect them and sometimes she can’t do both at the same time. Arranging a marriage to Laoghaire was in Jamie’s best interest (to her) because Claire was “lost” (under the couch, TM Rachely). Seeing Claire returned and seeing her looking so well and healthy had to leave her wondering — where had Claire been? Why hadn’t she looked for Jamie before? Why was she back? Would Jamie forget his responsibilities to his second wife? I don’t like that she summoned Laoghaire, that was for Jamie to do, but I can understand it. Or I can at least fill in the blanks.

    • #6288
      khenlow
      Participant

      I suspect we all have elements of each book we love and elements we wish were better… Is there one book in the series we all can agree is the best? I suspect not, which is part of the draw, isn’t it?

    • #6303
      conniebv
      Participant

      I loved the reunion, hated Jamaica and where they took the Geillis character. Add me to the group of people that think Jenny should have minded her own. I understand the theory, but the choice of a candidate was a total miss.

      • #6315
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        YES about Geillis. She was intriguing in OL and I really didn’t understand the whole thing with her and the abducted boys, like Young Ian. It sorta felt like they (or I guess, DG) thought Voyager needed a “villian” and decided to make Geillis one.

    • #6306
      rachely
      Participant

      I don’t have any better way that he could say it, but every time Jamie says he “lost” Claire I want to shout: “look under the couch cushions!”

    • #6330
      JB
      Participant

      Why yes I do want a Voyager thread! Which is probably obvious since I inadvertently hijacked the DiA thread to talk about Voyager. Sorry!

      Same as most everyone here, I loved everything up to the reunion and then wanted to put the brakes on and spend more time shacked up with the two of them. That’s also where I started to get slightly … disappointed I guess would be the right word? that we didn’t get more of Claire’s emotions at being reunited with Jamie. I think the only thing she said to him at some point in Voyager was that it was so lonely without him for 20 years. Certainly she was described as being happy and they both shook in each other’s arms in the print shop, etc. But I guess I wanted her to TELL Jamie some of what she had felt during the separation and how hard it was for her and how much she still loved him, etc.

      So I started wondering if that was just a function of the first-person voice — that DG or her editor(s) decided it would be repetitive for us to hear Claire describe what we had just seen play out in the narrative — or whether it’s that Claire is just not a demonstrative, effusive character. I suppose there’s evidence of the latter, given that it took her a long time to tell Jamie she loved him in Outlander. But as Voyager reached its emotional peak in the middle there, it really started to feel very one-sided. Jamie was doing his usual lavishing of praise and love and Claire was just mostly soaking it up.

      • #6359
        conniebv
        Participant

        You know, I am usually not one of the fans who laments that a series doesn’t follow a book exactly, and what you describe is exactly the reason why. Just like they delved into Frank more than the first book did, I think once they come back from the separation they need to REALLY spend time showing the repercussions. It wrapped up way too neatly for me in the books.

      • #6363
        MrsParker
        Participant

        I’m in agreement with you Connie. I do hope Claire and Jamie have some scenes in the television series that are like when Jamie asked Claire to “draw” their daughter for him. I bought the fast pacing in the book, or rather, justified it in the book, as Claire’s return to Jamie was unexpected and he had so much going on that his life couldn’t stop for her. Claire was prepared to meet him again; he wasn’t.

        But, much as I love how the television series gave us the visual of Jamie just looking at Claire, always looking, always aware of her, turning to look at her one last time before he leaves a room, I’m hoping the television series shows him looking at her again, to see how she’s the same and how she’s changed, just marveling that she’s there again. (I’m in a lurvy mood tonight, it seems).

      • #6364
        JB
        Participant

        That’s a very interesting point about what a visual medium can show that a printed one can’t. Your comment about Jamie always looking at Claire brought back to mind a large number of scenes of just that — though it wouldn’t have necessarily occurred to me before right now that the production had made a subtle but distinct point of Jamie’s gaze.

        And Connie, you made me consider that adaptations can enhance the appeal of a beloved book by the very act of being different. I see the series and the book as two separate entities, which is why it really doesn’t offend me that there has been stuff added to the series that isn’t in the source material. I think that’s due in large part to the sensitivity of Ron and crew to the book and the care they have taken to add only things, like the extra Frank bits or the wool waulking scene, that, in my opinion, enhance the story.

        And in an attempt to stop being such a thread hijacker and bring this post back to Voyager, I’ll say that if there is a third season, I would definitely like to see a little bit more added to the reunion. Because I read Outlander, DiA and Voyager in short succession, and because Voyager is structured so that the reader is “with” Jamie and Claire even though they’re apart, it was hard for me to feel the impact of 20 years of separation. It didn’t feel like they’d been apart that long. So yeah, I would definitely like to see a bit more exploration of that, and I think the series could really do that justice.

        Now I’m thinking about what I would like to see added to the second half of S1 that wasn’t in the book. Or season 2…

      • #6366
        MrsParker
        Participant

        Well from the previews, there’s a duel in the second half of S1 that’s either a flashback to the duel in DIA (the one Jamie had when he was a student in Paris) or there’s a whole other duel. I think the writers have done such a great job thus far. If the show was a page-by-page visual representation of the book, I think I would be bored. I like the additional scenes, it makes it more interesting and intriguing for me as a book reader.

        (p.s. you’re not hijacking the thread at all JB, the conversation is moving along nicely and isn’t repetitive)

    • #6367
      michellibell
      Participant

      You know, I’ve been wondering where they duel scene came from? I don’t remember a flashback one from Jamie’s student days, but that has to be it.

      • #6368
        rachely
        Participant

        It was why Jamie cut his hair b/f going after BJR, because when he had the duel when he was 19 his hair tie broke. He tells Claire about it…

    • #6370
      michellibell
      Participant

      ahhhhh…. that’s right

    • #6494
      AllisonL
      Participant

      for those who have read all the books so far—was it just me, or did DG reveal why Jamie is looking at Claire in Outlander, in BOSAA? I just finished it, and there is a moment when Jamie describes a dream he had of watching Claire through a window. And now, in Echo in the Bone, he’s having dreams of Bree, Roger and the kids in the 20th century. So he can astral project now? DG has always said she’d put the big reveal in the last book, now I’m wondering . . .?

      • #6497
        Katie (@bunnums)
        Participant

        I believe DG has said that the end of the last book (whichever number that is) will explain Jamie’s ghost in the beginning of Outlander. I don’t believe there’s been an explanation (yet) about Jamie’s dreams.

      • #6505
        MrsParker
        Participant

        Diana has confirmed the “ghost” in Outlander is Jamie — and that he’s also 25 years old. That’s the age of Jamie at the Battle of Culloden, which he survived. So already we know that it’s not so much a ghost (as in a spirit that goes on after life) but some sort of projection of Jamie.

        I’d also read that Master Raymond calls Jamie the Red Man not because of his hair but because of his aura. Raymond sees Jamie as “red” — the same as the Vikings that terrorized Raymond’s people in his original time, which is why Raymond is so frightened of Jamie. Apparently Jamie’s life force is so strong that Raymond can see it. In DIA he has Claire call out for Jamie in order to heal herself as their life forces are connected (I’m paraphrasing from what I read on Diana’s site and compilations from her CompuServe forum).

        I think this strong life force/aura is tied into the “ghost” and there’s still some missing info on exactly what happened at Culloden. It could be that at times of stress or distress Jamie is able to reach out to loved ones. In addition to his grandchildren, he remembers kissing Bree as a child behind her ear.

        Along the same lines of the random magic of these people, Claire’s aura is blue. So is Geillis.’ From Diana: all descendants of Raymond have the ability to travel through the stones and have this blue healing aura (although Geillis turned more to herbology and not healing). Which means Claire is not only related to Raymond, but also to Geillis, Roger, and the Comté St. Germain.

        Bree would have a particularly strong life force, being the off-spring of Claire and Jamie. Roger’s got some mojo too. So Jemmy and Maggie may be in for a wild ride.

        And now for the real kicker. In MOBY, Percy is searching for Fergus as a possible relation to a Beauchamp, which implies a familial connection to Claire. If it’s a direct connection, Claire is descended from Fegus and Marsali’s children. Which means Claire is a descendant… of Laoghaire.

      • #6581
        cynthia
        Participant

        This is amazing! I love this theory. I want this to be true so badly.

      • #6635
        barbc624
        Participant

        Very interesting information about Jamie.

        So I looked up aura colors on the web and found the following:

        Red
        Red is one of the most powerful colors found in an aura. It can be a positive or a negative element. Red represents the blood. It’s a vibration of action with the ability to either attract or repel.

        Dark red – You’re centered and grounded to the earth, self-sufficient and able to survive any circumstance.
        Brilliant red – You are very passionate, sexual, full of energy and competitive.

        Blue
        This color represents the throat, specifically the thyroid. If your aura is blue, you’re intuitive and you love helping people. You remain calm during a crisis. Others lean on you for support.

        Royal blue – This means you are a highly-developed spiritual intuitive or clairvoyant. You have a very generous and giving spirit, and you are always open to new possibilities.

        We know DG does a lot of research so I’m sure she looked up aura’s when she decided to bring them into the books. Red certainly fits Jamie and blue fits Claire.

        As far as Culloden there are definitely blanks to be filled. In ABOSAA Chapter 44 there is more information than we have had previously:
        http://outlander.wikia.com/wiki/Jamie_Fraser/Memories_of_Culloden

        I’m really curious to see where this is going and how it may tie into the vision of Jamie looking up at Claire in OL.

      • #6639
        Susan53
        Participant

        Thanks for this info regarding auras. Too lazy to look it up myself, but I always wondered. 😉

      • #6956
        patriciatrish
        Participant

        And now for the real kicker. In MOBY, Percy is searching for Fergus as a possible relation to a Beauchamp, which implies a familial connection to Claire. If it’s a direct connection, Claire is descended from Fegus and Marsali’s children. Which means Claire is a descendant… of Laoghaire.

        mind BLOWN!

        I hope Diana does a separate backstory on Raymond. I’ve seen some parts of this in her daily lines. I’m hoping that by series end she wraps up Raymond’s connection to Claire. I’m also hoping for Claire to be the most powerful time traveler ever, but that could be my love of fantasy seeping into these books. I get annoyed with the tagline that Claire is time-traveling nurse, as if she’s bouncing around like Dr. Who and healing people along the way.

      • #7013
        Maggie
        Participant

        And now for the real kicker. In MOBY, Percy is searching for Fergus as a possible relation to a Beauchamp, which implies a familial connection to Claire. If it’s a direct connection, Claire is descended from Fegus and Marsali’s children. Which means Claire is a descendant… of Laoghaire.

        mind BLOWN!

        Hmmm, Jamie does have a type!

        But, much as I love how the television series gave us the visual of Jamie just looking at Claire, always looking, always aware of her, turning to look at her one last time before he leaves a room, I’m hoping the television series shows him looking at her again, to see how she’s the same and how she’s changed, just marveling that she’s there again. (I’m in a lurvy mood tonight, it seems).

        I started re-watching the series with Storywonks new podcasts. You’re right, Jamie is always watching Claire even when he’s not aware of it. I didn’t realize Jamie was in love with Claire in the books until he was sleeping outside her door at the inn, but in the series I could see it right away.

    • #6500
      Tucsonlady
      Participant

      DG hasn’t publicly commented on the process. Astral projection would indeed be a credible method for Jamie to visit via his dreams. Precognition would be another method. This would make a great question to ask DG directly.

      Let me add considering the abilities we have witnessed in both Jemmy and Mandy DG has some interesting explanations coming our way. These gifts are areas I wish DG had started expanding throughout the series instead of leaving to the end to tie up.

      • This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Tucsonlady.
    • #6502
      sonyakhanum
      Participant

      This is totally random and off topic, sorry, but can I just say that Young Ian needs his own book?

    • #6513
      Susan53
      Participant

      [quote quote=6505]
      And now for the real kicker. In MOBY, Percy is searching for Fergus as a possible relation to a Beauchamp, which implies a familial connection to Claire. If it’s a direct connection, Claire is descended from Fegus and Marsali’s children. Which means Claire is a descendant… of Laoghaire.
      [/quote]

      Oh please, yes, let this be true, yes!! I love this so much. 🙂 Well done.

    • #6514
      Susan53
      Participant

      [quote quote=6333]I think I blocked the Jenny/Ian/thrashing thing.

      I felt like that book was a bunch of different scenes DG had written and then lumped them all together.
      [/quote]

      I believe I’ve read that this is her writing style. She writes scenes are they come to her and then makes them work together. Didn’t someone say earlier that she doesn’t use an outline? I certainly could “see” this style in Voyager more than the other books.

      • #7023
        conniebv
        Participant

        Yep, that was me. She said this at Thru the Stones, that she doesn’t outline.

      • #7030
        JB
        Participant

        I think that’s one reason why I like to reread each book. It’s hard to see the narrative thread on a first read. Plus, I speed through them so fast because I get all caught up in the suspense that I tend to miss things here and there.

    • #6515
      Susan53
      Participant

      [quote quote=6324]
      The thing that really bothers me about Jenny is her reaction to Claire’s return. She was just plain cold. Weren’t they best friends before? I would’ve expected a bigger reaction to her return, even if Jenny was upset.
      [/quote]

      I always end up scratching my head over Jenny and Ian’s reaction to Claire’s return. I know it’s a different time and place, but if this had happened in my family, Claire would have been sat on a stool with a harsh light directed on her face and forced to answer 20 questions until we were satisfied with her answers. Not even a “where have you been Claire?” from outspoken Jenny. I know Jamie gave Ian a general explanation, but in my house? I would have needed to hear it from Claire. 🙂

      I hope I’m not sounding too critical. This (and the fact the Claire didn’t think it necessary to tell Jamie about Laoghaire until The Fiery Cross) are two plot points that made me feel like I could see behind the curtain, so to speak. Which didn’t really happen that often.

      • #6582
        cynthia
        Participant

        I thought they were too distracted with Young Ian at the time, and Laoghaire and her daughters arrived the next morning. No time to speak about it all. I get why Jenny did what she did and I don’t hate her for it.

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