Terry Dresbach

Outlander Costume Designer

The Big O

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  • #3912
    rachely
    Participant

    Okay, I am totally willing to admit that I am hanging with the majority when it comes to being turned on by J&C’s sex scenes in the books (I’ll let you know about the TV show when Claire stops looking like someone killed her puppy).

    But… anyone else besides me ponder the whole “penis + vagina = Claire orgasm” thing that happens all the time? Clearly we all want Jamie to be our Imaginary Boyfriend because he goes down on Claire and because he clearly cares that she is satisfied, but… but… I cannot help but fear that people who read these books think it’s that simple for most women to come… Obviously, I can only speak for myself and for other women with whom I am close enough to have said conversations, but for all of us The Big O isn’t as simple as it is for J&C.

    So, is it just me? Does the rest of the world have vaginal orgasms that rival the ones Claire has?

    (Terry knows I’m drunk… I think I had 2 sips too many. 2 sips less I probably could have been more scholarly about the subject [actually did an oral report on female orgasms once (the pun in that still kills me) so I probably have enough footnotes in my brain to do it]. At this point, though, I’m just feeling curious and nosy)

Viewing 33 reply threads
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    • #3914
      rachely
      Participant

      Replying to myself…

      I KNOW that human anatomy isn’t standard. I had a rather fascinating discussion with my sister about ‘scissoring’ following the Orange is the New Black episode where it figured and she said there’s this whole thing in the lesbian community where people either say “yes you can” or “no you can’t” and people are very unwilling to admit the other side could have a point. She said she read something that said basically “if you’re lucky enough that your anatomy happens to be in the right spot scissoring works fine; if you’re not built that way it won’t happen. C’est la vie.)

      ETA: replying to myself again. I turn 40 in two days. I’ve been married for 14 years. I had many lovers before I married my husband. So how come it’s still embarrassing to talk about orgasms?

      • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by rachely.
      • #6558
        maureenanne
        Participant

        I love this discussion thread and can’t believe there has not been a post in quite some time. I’ve just discovered it and it is one of the topics I wanted to talk about. I belong to two stuffy book clubs and they think they are above OUtlander so I am so glad for this. I am with you all the way. Maybe it is my anatomy but I have only climaxed when on top and in a public forum. I know it was the fear of getting caught that got me. I find Diana’s sex talk goes the way of the romance novel and just does not work for me. Still love the stories though. I imagine the sex scenes differently in my head 🙂 Of course with blurry faces…

      • #6560
        rachely
        Participant

        in a public forum

        YOU GO GIRL!

      • #6567
        maureenanne
        Participant

        The female orgasm has been proof to me that there is a God.

      • #6572
        rachely
        Participant

        Men would probably say the same thing about theirs!

        So I am a total “OH GOD”er even though I’m an atheist. I’ve often wonder what people say in, say, places that practice animism.

      • #6587
        maureenanne
        Participant

        Yes but the male climax is needed for reproduction. Female not so much.

        If I practiced animism I would probably say “Oh Aslan” an homage to C.S. Lewis (and the voice of Liam Neeson).

      • #6590
        rachely
        Participant

        aaaand…now I wish I said “oh, Aslan”. Except my husband would probably burst out laughing.

      • #6602
        maureenanne
        Participant

        Mine would wonder if I was sleeping with another man….you are too funny.

      • #6607
        cynthia
        Participant

        Mine would think he’s a lion in bed.

        small voice: he is.

      • #6609
        maureenanne
        Participant

        That is delicious! Lion King..King Jamie…OMG Jamie is Aslan!!! All of my childhood fantasies are fulfilled. I must confess that as a child I found The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe strangely erotic like there was something out there that was really wonderful but I did not quite know what it was.

    • #3918
      michellibell
      Participant

      First I’m going to start off with a golf clap for your “oral report” pun. Nicely done.
      Secondly, I turned 40 today (woot), have been married twice, this second time for 9 years and have had plenty of lovers before as well.

      Orgasms are easy for me. I have one every time we have sex – with a few exceptions, but very few. My husband knows me and can hit the right spots. As we grow older together, it’s getting easier as well. I have no doubt that Jamie can hit Claire’s spots as well.

      And it’s interesting that your friends say that orgasms are hard to achieve. I would say my group of friends feel about the same that I do…. that NOT having one is more rare than having one.

      • #3925
        rachely
        Participant

        Oh, my husband knows what he’s doing, let that be said in case he’s reading this! It’s just that no waterweed quickie would get me off : )

        (I was the only one who wasn’t embarrassed to do the report. It was for some anthropology of women class about which I remember very little and had little interest. Actually, I remember some other woman doing a report about the !Kung people and I have no idea what she said because it was so distracting every time she clicked her tongue to say !Kung)

      • #3952
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        Happy Birthday!

    • #3926
      rachely
      Participant

      And PLEASE don’t think this is somehow “my” topic.

      Anyone feel free to take over and talk about sex in Outlander as much as they want.

      Speaking of which, Terry, how much of showing Mrs Fitz dress Claire was to explain to the viewer why J&C have sex with their clothes on half the time?

      AND, michellibell, HAPPY BIRTHDAY! I’m actually turning younger this year so it’s very exciting. I’ve been lying up about my age for YEARS, so today I’m 43, tomorrow I’ll be 40 again.

    • #3935
      michellibell
      Participant

      Well, I’ve been 29 for several years now, so I finally decided it was time to grow up and just be 40. ha!

      And, like you said, all of our anatomies are obviously different, so maybe I’m arranged in a way that makes it more conducive (wow, we are getting detailed here, aren’t we?), but I think the orgasm is just as much mental as it is physical.

    • #3940
      filmfixation
      Participant

      OOOOOOOOO so glad you started this Rachel! I am one of those women who has NEVER orgasmed through vaginal intercourse.

      (crickets)

      (more crickets)

      My boyfriend and I have a tried and true method of getting me off, and it does involve quite a bit of erm, work, from myself. So yes, upon reading of this magical Scottish penis that after 3 thrusts seems to send our heroine into gasping spasms of surrender…i was well a bit miffed. Turned on? Well duh. Annoyed that I am not experiencing the same thing with the man I really really love?? Emphatically yes on that one.

      • #3950
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        I seriously laughed out loud at “magical Scottish penis”…*sigh.

      • #3954
        rachely
        Participant

        It is magical, isn’t it? Or seems to be. Then, of course, maybe if you magically travel thru rocks easy orgasms are just par for the course?

        I have noticed that as the books progress there is more manual stimulation (Jamie has calloused knuckles, ye ken?) involved in many of the scenes. And there”s this whole thing with Bree not able to have orgasms with Roger so i guess i did get less annoyed as the series went on. have you gotten to Ian and Rachel yet? Mmmmmph indeed!

      • #3959
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        Oh, I haven’t gotten that far yet with Bree and Roger (I’m 2/3 through Drums of Autumn) (and don’t worry about spoilers for me though) but I’m glad to know that about Bree, otherwise it just wouldn’t be fair haha!

      • #3960
        rachely
        Participant

        I’m surprised I even noticed. I tend to skim Bree and Roger.

      • #3963
        filmfixation
        Participant

        dude. I JUST got to the section where its revealed theyre in love. “MMMMMmmph” meaning I should stay up reading the book to get to the scene or “mmmmmmph” I’ll have another case of miraculous vagina envy?

      • #3965
        rachely
        Participant

        Dude! I think they don’t get married until the last book (#8) so I think you have a while to go before the Mmmphing on their wedding night. And, no, not vagina envy. Can-Ian-Be-Mine envy : )

      • #3968
        filmfixation
        Participant

        perfect. I find Ian very hot so I’m quite looking forward to this!

      • #3966
        filmfixation
        Participant

        yes, there is a bit more manual stimulation, true…and then there is the Bree issue…BUT she seems to come out of this issue with little to no difficulty, if i remember correctly. Plus in their first sexual encounter in the barn I do think its one of those magical scottish penis episodes. Its only the rape that sets her “back” a bit and renders her sexually “special”. Ugh, I had never thought of that before, makes sense for a woman to feel very differently about sex after experiencing that, but I do wish her difficulty having orgasms with Roger came before that.

      • #3970
        rachely
        Participant

        So Much barn sex. Christ, it makes me itchy just thinking about it!

    • #3949
      michellibell
      Participant

      Adding another layer of discussion, I’ve always been impressed with the amount of sex Jamie and Claire have. I mean, maybe it’s supposed to be a romance novel in some regard, but DAMN. These two are having sex in the fields, the moors, the mountains, the beaches, etc etc.
      I’d love to have that much sex, but by the end of the day, we’re too dang tired and busy to do so. We always joke about people who have affairs – we’re to tired to have an affair with each other most of the time, much less go through all the trouble to find someone else.
      And the fact that a 4 year old likes to climb in bed between us might be a factor as well.
      But Jamie and Claire will fight the redcoats, freeze on a long march, practically starve and then get it on in the bushes later that night.

      • #3955
        rachely
        Participant

        HELLO INTERNET WELCOME TO MY SEX LIFE!

        My husband and I do our best (I just wrote ‘breast’ Freudian much?) to have sex every night. Even if it’s quick and even if we’re exhausted.

      • #3964
        filmfixation
        Participant

        are you serious?! Jesus H. Roosevelt Christ.

      • #3967
        rachely
        Participant

        A’yup. It was a conscious decision after realizing how little we’d had sex since Longshot had been born. I sort of made this decision that that Would Not Do and decided to dive right in and do my best to remedy the situation. Seriously, it’s often 5 minutes and I’m all like “okay that was great, but now get the fuck out of my bed you snore”. It’s sort of the principle that counts.

        Also I often sleep better post-climax.

      • #3969
        filmfixation
        Participant

        isnt there a dumb reality tv show on TLC or something where they challenge couples to have sex every night for one week? You’re totally rendering that show, “not impressive jeez” I applaud you!

      • #3979
        rachely
        Participant

        I’m not sure which is the best part of this: the sex? or the Pope?
        How to stay obsessed and enamored: The best way to save a marriage is sex

      • #3993
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        My favourite: “like two star systems colliding in outer space” and ““The audience of celibate men was a bit taken aback.”

        Interesting article, thanks! And I totally applaud you and your spouse!

    • #3951
      sonyakhanum
      Participant

      YES! rachely, what a great topic! Reading the books, I was quite annoyed with how easy it seems to be for them (because, it’s not that easy for me…) I was kinda surprised how fast it took for them in the Wedding episode the second time around…was it like that in the books? I don’t remember. But, good for Claire! Experiences with orgasms is quite diverse and michellibell, I agree that there is a mental aspect to it as well. It can either be a mental thing or a physical thing, or both. Isn’t it a common misconception portrayed in the media that it’s an easy and natural thing for all women?

      • #3956
        rachely
        Participant

        I think in the book she didn’t describe the mechanisms of it. She just “arched against him” and he thought he hurt her. And she explained it to him, he didn’t figure it out himself the way he did in the show. I think it’s the scene with the “unflagging joy” of male virginity which always cracks me up.

      • #3962
        filmfixation
        Participant

        I second that-Jaime’s first experience of giving a woman an Orgasm was UNINTENTIONAL. Oh man, what I would give for a dude to unintentionally make me come! But the truth for me, and a lot of women I know, is that giving the lady the big O is an intentional pursuit.

        In terms of the potrayal in the media I think youre partly right Sonya-though I have found it more to be either :

        A: What, women have orgasms independent from the male climax? (Male writer pauses, scratches head) We really need these characters to climax simultaneously…you know…plot…The lead guy is so attractive we’ll just have her appear to be orgasming from the kiss on.

        or

        B. This is a sex scene, not a women’s lib consciousness raising. She’ll look like she’s consenting but thats it.

        I would argue that Outlander’s depiction of sex in the wedding episode was perfect EXCEPT for the Big O. I mean, couldn’t it just have lasted a little longer…or maybe shown Jaime to have done something more erm intentional before Claire climaxes?! I dont need cunnilingus out of the poor boy but jesus, no wonder he falls in love with Claire! He just sticks it in her a few times and BAM! “Good Lover Stamp of Approval” At least put her on top…

      • #3989
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        Agree with the either/or. And the unintentional orgasm after a couple of thrusts – totally magical Scottish penis. But yes, other than that, I totally loved the depiction of sex.

    • #3981
      michellibell
      Participant

      Ok, I did some thuper-duper official poll-taking amongst my friends and here are the results:

      Out of 156 votes:

      49.4% say they orgasm every time
      16% say more often than not
      13.5% say it’s about 50/50
      5.1% say less than half the time
      16% say it’s a rare occurrence

      But, in a similar poll, the numbers of women saying they don’t like to have sex is very close to the numbers that reply they rarely have an orgasm. Well, that’s a no-brainer.

    • #3982
      michellibell
      Participant

      [quote quote=3955]HELLO INTERNET WELCOME TO MY SEX LIFE!

      My husband and I do our best (I just wrote ‘breast’ Freudian much?) to have sex every night. Even if it’s quick and even if we’re exhausted.
      [/quote]
      I’m impressed. Another golf-clap for ya!
      My husband and I have mentioned something like that before, and then we both start giggling.

    • #3983
      michellibell
      Participant

      While I’m giving out rounds of golf claps, here’s one to Ron Moore for allowing Claire to enjoy some oral loving from Frank whilst exploring the ruins of Castle Leoch.
      It’s nice to see a sex scene where the woman is initiating and enjoying, and not on her knees for the man.
      Just because I saw it this weekend, Gone Girl also had Ben Affleck doing the same for Amy. I’m sure there are others, but I’ve not had enough coffee this morning and can’t think.

      • #3991
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        I loved that scene and it’s what made me realize that it was going to be a great show, besides it being based on the books. There’s something about her on the table with Frank on his knees that really did it for me in terms of female power. And then to have it done in the room in Castle Leoch where she ends up working as a healer (I can’t think of its name at the moment) – I’m probably stretching things/overanalysing, but you can probably draw some symbolism from that. The only other show/movie that I can recall at the moment with cunnilingus between a man and a woman was The Counselor between Michael Fassbender’s character and Penelope Cruz’s character.

      • #4001
        rachely
        Participant

        I think maybe it’s changed (and TV ratings are different anyway) but it is/was an automatic NC-17 if you showed cunnilingus. I mean rape, murder, beating, may get you a PG-13, but muff-diving GOD FORBID you show that. I remember the director of Boys Don’t Cry being incensed that she had to cut oral sex but being allowed to show rape.

        Not sure what the rules are now, since I don’t think Gone Girl was NC-17, was it?

        Terry or Robyn might know better.

    • #3997
      Sanderson
      Participant

      So I’m not the only one who was dumbstruck by Claire’s orgasm during the second go-round in the wedding episode! Is it possible she was just really ready? I didn’t think so, because the first “stab” at it in the show was one of function and mechanics only, without any foreplay – physical or otherwise. She was STILL spurning Jamie’s tenderness and touches after the first time and before the second so I don’t think she was revving her engines in her mind. She started climaxing as soon as he entered her, however, and I thought this was highly unlikely and unrealistic. Maybe that could happen if there had been tons of foreplay if a woman is bursting at the seams, so to speak?

      So one must wonder; is it possible for a woman who can orgasm so quickly and with so little build up – to have an orgasm when she is raped? Sorry if that is offensive but there is, after all, a lot of raping going on in the books.

      Speaking of such things, its a wonder J&C ever have sex again after she is dragged from the stones back to Fort William in the last episode. I mean she is raped/almost raped twice in one day by different men. (I think the jury is still out on whether the redcoat, whom she stabs in the kidneys, actually penetrates her.) I know the episodes ended there, but I think (based on the books) that it is reasonable to assume that their sex life doesn’t end there.

      • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by Sanderson.
    • #4002
      barbc624
      Participant

      I’ve been married only once for 35+ years. We were both each others first and I have to say that at the beginning we had a lot of learning to do. But we learned together. 🙂

      I orgasm every time – he makes sure I do! 🙂 🙂 Sometimes it takes some oral first and other times I can come really quickly without it. I think that partly depends on how tired/stressed I am. But often I find that mental foreplay is as effective if not more effective than physical. That can take the form of a well written sex scene in a book or just little things between us over the course of a day or evening. Wasn’t there a museum show years back titled something along the lines of “Your biggest sex organ” and when you went to it the subject was the brain?

      ~~~~~~~~
      I think the explanation Claire gives in the book for her immediate responsiveness to Jamie on their wedding night is that she (a) is suffering from deprivation since she and Frank had a healthy sex life and (b) she has been attracted physically to Jamie from the first and has been fighting the attraction. That wasn’t communicated in the tv show. The omission of her thoughts on that and of her book reaction at seeing him in his “full highlander glory”, plus her looking “like someone killed her puppy” for much of the wedding night makes it difficult to understand why she would respond to him so quickly and leaves the “magical Scottish penis” as the only explanation.

      There are also time constraints since showing a very lengthy sex scene (which would be more realistic) would be problematic in the time allotted for the show. And, to add her thoughts in would have required more voiceovers. Finally, much of the focus of the show to date has been showing her love for Frank to the non-book readers in order to not make her come across as fickle and self centered.

      I put it down to a difference between mediums – in a book you can “tell” more easily than on tv where you have to “show” which can be difficult when there is so much introspection in the source material. It will be interesting to see how the second half “shows” Claire’s growing love for Jamie since, again, there is a lot of introspection in the book that tells the reader what is going on in her emotions and mind.

      • #4005
        rachely
        Participant

        Yes, yes, and yes.

        The book is clearer about why she’s mightily aroused which time restraints don’t allow for. And that was me and the “like someone killed her puppy” and it was totally that for me. The whole episode she looked like that, unlike in the book where she was more like “well, this is all a bit weird, but I don’t want to go back to Ft William so let’s make the best of it!” and she felt less like a bigamist and more like the Claire we know and love–eminently practical. Being married was going to save her from BJR, make her stop being watched all the time, and she was lonely and–I would imagine–terrified.

        Poor girl, TV Claire finally stops looking miserable and Harry the Redcoat shows up.

    • #4030
      Sanderson
      Participant

      During our “courtship”, I always told my husband that if you want to seduce a woman, seduce her mind first. The rest will be easy. 🙂

    • #4033
      jenjdalton
      Participant

      I’m feeling pretty lucky at the moment, as I nearly always have one. When my husband and I first had sex, I was was 26 and divorced (I married young). He was a virgin, and I had one – before he did. I think anticipation played a part in it, but it is definitely possible.

    • #4208
      crzyqlt
      Participant

      Jumping out of lurkerdom…

      Women have to own their orgasms. I am almost 51, been married 32 years, have 6 kids. Fully in the throws of perimenopause. And on antidepressants off & on. Several years ago hubby was doing his best, because he likes to watch me go first, and I knew it wasn’t going to happen, so I faked it. So he could have his fun and go to sleep.

      I realized that I was passive during much of this and needed to figure out a way to get there quicker. So positions I thought I would never try, I did, and a trip or 2 two to the local Lover’s store for some electrical devices…

      Use toys, your fingers, his , whatever, but it isn’t your partner’s job alone to get you to an orgasm. Once we both figured this out, the experimenting became as much of a turn on as getting there, and orgasms came faster. Plus, since I can orgasm several times, he is once again happy to try to get me to as much as possible before his turn.

      TMI?

      • This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by crzyqlt.
    • #4209
      crzyqlt
      Participant

      Jumping out of lurkerdom…

      Women have to own their orgasms. I am almost 51, been married 32 years, have 6 kids. Fully in the throws of perimenopause. And on antidepressants off & on. Several years ago hubby was doing his best, because he likes to watch me go first, and I knew it wasn’t going to happen, so I faked it. So he could have his fun and go to sleep.

      I realized that I was passive during much of this and needed to figure out a way to get there quicker. So positions I thought I would never try, I did, and a trip or 2 two to the local Lover’s store for some electrical devices…

      Use toys, your fingers, his , whatever, but it isn’t your partner’s job alone to get you to an orgasm. Once we both figured this out, the experimenting became as much of a turn on as getting there, and orgasms came faster. Plus, since I can orgasm several times, he is once again happy to try to get me to as much as possible before his turn.

    • #4266
      Terry Dresbach
      Keymaster

      [quote quote=3912]Okay, I am totally willing to admit that I am hanging with the majority when it comes to being turned on by J&C’s sex scenes in the books (I’ll let you know about the TV show when Claire stops looking like someone killed her puppy).

      But… anyone else besides me ponder the whole “penis + vagina = Claire orgasm” thing that happens all the time? Clearly we all want Jamie to be our Imaginary Boyfriend because he goes down on Claire and because he clearly cares that she is satisfied, but… but… I cannot help but fear that people who read these books think it’s that simple for most women to come… Obviously, I can only speak for myself and for other women with whom I am close enough to have said conversations, but for all of us The Big O isn’t as simple as it is for J&C.

      So, is it just me? Does the rest of the world have vaginal orgasms that rival the ones Claire has?

      (Terry knows I’m drunk… I think I had 2 sips too many. 2 sips less I probably could have been more scholarly about the subject [actually did an oral report on female orgasms once (the pun in that still kills me) so I probably have enough footnotes in my brain to do it]. At this point, though, I’m just feeling curious and nosy)

      [/quote]

      LOL, I do think you are fantastic, Rachel!

      • #4276
        rachely
        Participant

        LOL, I do think you are fantastic, Rachel!

        I was thinking of taking a vow of modesty with my new cap in hand (or on head, as it were) but, really, what fun would that be?

    • #4392
      CelticGlamazon
      Participant

      [quote quote=3912]

      But… anyone else besides me ponder the whole “penis + vagina = Claire orgasm” thing that happens all the time? Clearly we all want Jamie to be our Imaginary Boyfriend because he goes down on Claire and because he clearly cares that she is satisfied, but… but… I cannot help but fear that people who read these books think it’s that simple for most women to come… Obviously, I can only speak for myself and for other women with whom I am close enough to have said conversations, but for all of us The Big O isn’t as simple as it is for J&C.

      So, is it just me? Does the rest of the world have vaginal orgasms that rival the ones Claire has?

      [/quote]

      This is one of those, Hi strangers, let me share my sex life with you, moments! 🙂

      So I’m torn on this subject, and jealous of Claire. I’m 34, in great health, had some lovely partners, and have never…ever…not even once achieved orgasm through penetration alone. My best friend, same age, etc., was the same until she met Magic Penis/Horrible personality at 32. Something about this guy flipped a switch for her, and bam…all the orgasms.

      So I’m living under the believe that there is a magic scottish penis out there for everyone (I don’t actually believe that, I just love the term magic scottish penis), and possibly because I secretly hope this is true.

      I came to terms with this when I was still married, for 8 years, and realized that I was just as responsible for my “O” as my partner was, and things became more interesting from there. I’ve had partners that get super upset over this though, it’s like they take it as a competition for their manhood to be the “one”. That becomes tiresome.

      • #4406
        rachely
        Participant

        I still say there’s something about anatomical setup and how one’s own meets someone elses. Thus explaining said friend’s orgasms, if not her taste in men.

    • #4400
      michellibell
      Participant

      And I thought I’d go ahead and add re: The Magical Scottish Penis – my husband is Scottish… so there’s, that. LOL!

    • #4411
      Pelly
      Participant

      So glad women are talking about this! My question is- when did authors start to write sex scenes with anything other than penetration for the big O? Remember this book was written 20-some years ago. Books have come a long way since then, right?

      • #4412
        CelticGlamazon
        Participant

        [quote quote=4411]So glad women are talking about this! My question is- when did authors start to write sex scenes with anything other than penetration for the big O? Remember this book was written 20-some years ago. Books have come a long way since then, right?
        [/quote]

        I’ve read Victorian erotica that was pretty spot on as far as using all options for reaching the big “O”, but see what you mean. Things have gotten better for sexual realism. In an effort to avoid spoilers, the realism of the sex in the series gets more and more accurate as the series progresses. It’s one of the things that makes me love the books as much as I do. It’s not all magic Scottish Penis sex. 🙂 /I’m not kidding, that’s my new favorite thing.

        [quote quote=4400]And I thought I’d go ahead and add re: The Magical Scottish Penis – my husband is Scottish… so there’s, that. LOL![/quote] <<– Jealous, just saying.

        [quote quote=4406]I still say there’s something about anatomical setup and how one’s own meets someone elses. Thus explaining said friend’s orgasms, if not her taste in men.[/quote]

        Just think of that survey on a dating sight. Please choose which part accurately describes the precise geometric shape of your said part? A. B. C. D. etc. ***We will now match you with appropriately corresponding magic bits.

        I agree completely with this, and her taste in men is atrocious. This thread prompted me to ask how her beau is in bed, and apparently he’s not keeping up. So the magic penis theory stands.

    • #4562
      mostly a lurker
      Participant

      magical scottish penis AND honest convo about the big O! idk if i can take it! ha ha ha ha!

      i’m one of those that has rarely, if ever, had an orgasm through another’s agency. i do (more than) just fine on my own, but poorly with all my male partners. it’s a bummer 🙁

      now, i find the sex scenes in the books to be fairly hot. (and here’s my second confession, i used to write smutty fan fiction and even won a hotness award in a sex-themed competition.) _however_ *ducks potential pitchforks and rotten food* i do _not_ find the J&C sex scenes in the show (to date) to be hot, sexy, and/or terribly realistic (other than the deflowering of jamie bit). where’s the foreplay? and unless it truly is magical scottish penis, how on earth could a sexually unexperienced man pick up a woman and impale her on his erect cock without someone using a hand to help guide things? did anyone else wonder about this, or is it only me?

      since this is such a confessional post, i’ll also confess something else likely unpopular — i find the sex/kissing/intimate scenes between F&C to be much, much sexier/hotter….

      *crawls back under rock and hides*

      • #4563
        CelticGlamazon
        Participant

        So, the penis jousting-with no hands…I’ve had two partners that could do that. It was a feat of magic, considering I’m 6’3″.

        I also found the scenes between F&C to be amazingly hot, but…the awkwardness and inexperience of their (J&C) first night was endearing. I have high hopes that the chemistry they show outside of the bedroom, will impact the future bawawawachicawawa scenes. That’s a technical term, used for science.

        [quote quote=4562]
        *crawls back under rock and hides*
        [/quote]

        Nice rock, you come here often?

      • #4568
        rachely
        Participant

        how on earth could a sexually unexperienced man pick up a woman and impale her on his erect cock without someone using a hand to help guide things? did anyone else wonder about this, or is it only me?

        Because it’s a MAGICAL cock, duh! *SNORT*

        Movie/TV sex: when people have sex in showers and it’s not all like “hey, I’m cold, now that someone else is taking up half the hot water” and “when was the last time anyone bleached in here?”

      • #6914
        mostly a lurker
        Participant

        hi! *waves* nope, not here too often. lurk more than speak. though i absolutely LOVE this convo and am glad to see some activity from it in my inbox. 😀

    • #4573
      barbc624
      Participant

      Oh absolutely the “magic cock” ;)! But did penetration really happen in that scene when he picked her up? I thought it was when he flipped her over after sitting on the bed and that the reason he flipped her underneath him was because he was having a bit of a problem due to his inexperience. Did anyone else see it that way?

      What I found the hottest of the tv sex scenes was the final sex act after he gives her his mother’s pearls, where you can just feel the emotion between them. But to me the hottest part of any sex scene is what goes on emotionally between the partners, not the pure physical act. I feel that emotional connection between J&C in that scene, as well as in some of their earlier scenes in the show. In that I think the books do a better job of showing the growing connection between them, something which has been somewhat lacking in the show to date. I believe that is going to become much stronger as the show progesses and we move forward with their marriage and future events.

      Frank and Claire – MEH. I just don’t feel the vibes from them so to me their sex came across as more cold and physical. But that’s me – I have always found Frank to be emotionally distant and not very appealing, and, even with the show’s attempts to make him more likable, he just doesn’t do it for me.

      Question – have you read the books yet? Just curious because I find that it seems to make a difference in how people perceive Frank between book readers and those who have just discovered Outlander through the tv show.

      But no rocks are needed here* and last I saw there weren’t any pitchforks or rotten food sitting around. Ducks? Was that what that quacking was that I thought I heard before?

      * As long as we all play nice in the sandbox and don’t start throwing the sand at each other. I think if we do that Terry gives us a Time Out! :0

      • #4574
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        Barb, I saw it the same way too, that the penetration didn’t happen until he flipped her over.

        As for the final sex act, I actually got teary eyed (this is probably totally weird). It was so beautifully done and you could feel the emotional connection. It was very touching…*sniff I’m excited to see what the show has in store for us in terms of their physical and emotional connection. Frank and Claire’s sex scenes didn’t do much for me either, though I thought the scene when they were visiting the Castle was pretty hot. Other than that, I didn’t really feel the connection. Barb, you’re probably right that book readers may have a different reaction to Frank and perceive him differently. Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that from what we’ve seen so far, Claire seems to be more “authentic” (not sure if that’s the right word I want to use :s ) and almost natural when it comes to sex with Jamie than with Frank? It may be because I’m watching the show from a “book-reader lens” with a certain bias towards Jamie and her relationship with him.

      • #4587
        CelticGlamazon
        Participant

        I liked Frank in the first book, not love…not like Jamie. I was prepared to be indifferent to him in the series, but Tobias made me fall in love with Frank. I probably feel that way, because I’ve read through the half mark of book 8. I grew to see Frank in a different light as the books went on, and that probably shaped my impression of their scenes together in the show.

    • #4577
      barbc624
      Participant

      [quote quote=4574] Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that from what we’ve seen so far, Claire seems to be more “authentic” (not sure if that’s the right word I want to use :s ) and almost natural when it comes to sex with Jamie than with Frank? It may be because I’m watching the show from a “book-reader lens” with a certain bias towards Jamie and her relationship with him.

      [/quote]

      I feel like Claire is trying too hard to connect with Frank and is using sex to do so (which she says in the voiceover). So the sex doesn’t really feel spontaeous and joyful to me. If they are supposed to be on a secon honeymoon it seems like Frank is spending way too much time with the Reverend and way too little with his wife.

      • #4586
        Lalou
        Participant

        Hi, ladies. I’ve been reading you all for the last few weeks and have agreed to most of what you said – in a much more articulate way my English would let me say it : I’m French, reading you from France and glad to see that there are wise and sensitive women all over the world – which I knew of course, but sometimes you kind of doubt it.
        Barb, I never bought it between Claire and Franck in the books first, nor in the show. God, that guy is so cold ! You’re right, he spends more time with the Reverend than with his wife (because he’s more interested in history than his couple obviously !). And then, the thing I never forgave him, is that he never believed Claire when she told him about the stones. Jamie did, that’s love, at least for me.

      • #4588
        CelticGlamazon
        Participant

        I think Frank had a harder time believing her because he is from a culture with a strong focus on science and explanation of the supernatural through science. Culturally speaking, Jamie’s time was steeped in Superstition and strong beliefs in those things as real. Jamie was also aware of the folklore surrounding people traveling through the stones, that made it easier for him to believe it.

        I perceive Frank as more scarred, in a way, than cold. I think he was changed by war, and the separation from a wife that he never really had the chance to connect with or get to know.

      • #4589
        rachely
        Participant

        SPOILERS

        Yeah, by the time you get to book 7 or 8 or whatever it is you find out that Frank did believe her, in his own way. Enough to tell B. to go there and be safe with J&C.

      • #4590
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        [quote quote=4588]
        I perceive Frank as more scarred, in a way, than cold. I think he was changed by war, and the separation from a wife that he never really had the chance to connect with or get to know.
        [/quote]

        I always fail to think about that with Frank, about how he was most likely scarred and changed by war. You can definitely see the difference between pre-war Frank and post-war Frank in the show (I don’t really remember much about Frank before the war in the books – I don’t think there was really anything). Pre-war Frank definitely appeared to be more romantic and spontaneous from the clips we’ve seen so far. Despite my feelings towards Frank and the sex scenes, I was touched by that one scene where Claire is shaving Frank’s face. And, my husband seems to think that Frank was being super romantic with a spontaneous wedding (though I disagree).

    • #4595
      barbc624
      Participant

      [quote quote=4588]
      I perceive Frank as more scarred, in a way, than cold. I think he was changed by war, and the separation from a wife that he never really had the chance to connect with or get to know.
      [/quote]

      He may have been scarred by the war and he reacted by distancing himself from others, but I still see him as an emotionally more distant person to begin with. I think it’s telling that he chose to marry a woman
      who was 15 years younger than him rather than one closer to his age and more of an equal. That allows for more distance and also more dominance (for lack of a better word) over his partner.

      I have my doubts that Claire would have ever been really happy with him (and vice versa), especially after her wartime experiences. She may have taken his brushing her off in the beginning, but I don’t think she would have tolerated that for long. She is too unconventional herself and too much of a take charge person to be happy as a proper “professor’s wife”.

      Frank never had the opportunity to see that side of her before the war – he only saw the dazzled young woman looking at him with stars in her eyes, not the 12 year old girl who by sheer strength of will forced her Uncle to take her along with him all over the world . Claire only stayed with Frank after she came back for Brianna’s sake, and she makes it clear that she never felt part of his academic world or the people in it. I think that still would have happened even if she had never gone through the stones.

      I actually do think that I originally liked Frank more after first reading Outlander and before I read the other books. He seemed like an ok but kind of dull and pedantic guy. After Claire returned to him, he came across as too much the typical privileged white male who expects his wife to fit into a neat little box as defined by society. He is clear that he is taking her back because it is the proper thing to do and he always does the proper thing. I also see him as passive agressive. He accepts Claire back, but he spends the next 20 years quietly punishing her for what he sees as her transgression.

      He does take care of Brianna so Claire can become a doctor but that is more Brianna’s sake than for Claire’s. He loves Brianna, but as a father he is in the dominant role. It would have been interesting to see what happened if he had been around when Brianna matured and became more of her own person rather than Daddy’s little girl. I think he would have had some real issues with her – note his already evidenced disapproval of her associating with Joe Abernathy’s son and his solution to it of arbitrarily removing her from a situation that doesn’t meet with his approval regardless of how it might affect her.

      The tragedy of Frank is that he should have married a woman who was as proper and conventional as himself and who would have understood and been happy as the type of wife he wanted. He was probably as dazzled by Claire and her differences from the women he knew as she was by him. I doubt he ever stopped to consider how those differences would play out over time. Maybe he thought he would be able to mold her into what he wanted her to be without realizing that success would destroy the qualities in her that he fell in love with to start with.

      People who have a passion for life as do Claire and Jamie are hard to live with for those who don’t share that trait. That’s why the two get along so well – they understand each other in a way that Frank and Claire never could. They do a lot of good but they also wreak a lot of havoc on those who care for them.
      Frank and Jenny and Ian Sr.and even Lord John Grey, have all felt the effects both good and bad of their actions just to name a few.

    • #4596
      barbc624
      Participant

      [quote quote=4588]I think Frank had a harder time believing her because he is from a culture with a strong focus on science and explanation of the supernatural through science. Culturally speaking, Jamie’s time was steeped in Superstition and strong beliefs in those things as real. Jamie was also aware of the folklore surrounding people traveling through the stones, that made it easier for him to believe it.

      [/quote]

      [quote quote=4589]SPOILERS

      Yeah, by the time you get to book 7 or 8 or whatever it is you find out that Frank did believe her, in his own way. Enough to tell B. to go there and be safe with J&C.
      [/quote]

      SPOILERS
      Good points about Frank and Jamie and their different belief systems.

      I think Frank eventually believed because he did the same research that Roger did and found the historical evidence that proved Claire’s story. I wouldn’t be surprised if he found the deed to Lallybroch with Claire’s signature on it – there’s the proof positive he would have needed.

    • #4651
      Lalou
      Participant

      I’m in the middle of Voyager (I still have a lot of Outlander books to read, yeahhhh !) and I just read about the quickie between Claire and Jamie on the boat. Another improbable sex scene, at least IMO. But I guess we don’t have the equivalent of the magical Scottish cock here in France, even if we happen to have rather hot stuff around.
      Anyway there’s no harm in fantasizing over SuperJaimie, every feat makes him more lovable.

    • #4652
      michellibell
      Participant

      [quote quote=4596]

      <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>CelticGlamazon wrote:</div>
      I think Frank had a harder time believing her because he is from a culture with a strong focus on science and explanation of the supernatural through science. Culturally speaking, Jamie’s time was steeped in Superstition and strong beliefs in those things as real. Jamie was also aware of the folklore surrounding people traveling through the stones, that made it easier for him to believe it.

      <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>rachely wrote:</div>
      SPOILERS

      Yeah, by the time you get to book 7 or 8 or whatever it is you find out that Frank did believe her, in his own way. Enough to tell B. to go there and be safe with J&C.

      SPOILERS
      Good points about Frank and Jamie and their different belief systems.

      I think Frank eventually believed because he did the same research that Roger did and found the historical evidence that proved Claire’s story. I wouldn’t be surprised if he found the deed to Lallybroch with Claire’s signature on it – there’s the proof positive he would have needed.

      [/quote]
      Totally agree that Frank very much believed Claire. He knew Brianna, if not Claire, would eventually go “looking” for Jamie. That’s why he put the gravestone there, that’s why he taught Brianna how to shoot, etc.

      • #4653
        Lalou
        Participant

        Not yet there. For the moment (Voyager), “we” think that he doesn’t trust her. DG always amazes me with the brilliant ideas she comes up with. When you think things are one way, she totally flips the situation into something you never had expected.

    • #4962
      hotscot
      Participant

      What I don’t think anyone has picked up on is that Jamie & Claire have a rare sexual connection with each other. Remember when Jamie asks her if “this is usual” what they feel for each other. And the answer here is no, this isn’t usual. So if you haven’t experienced the feeling of being “on fire” for someone, almost electrified at their slightest touch, don’t be disappointed. This is a highly unusual experience. With a relationship like this, the orgasms come super, super easily, and multiple. It’s rare, but it happens.

    • #6563
      rachely
      Participant

      I just reread this thread. God I love this thread.

    • #6585
      conniebv
      Participant

      I love reading it, but then I think about the days when I just used to come in here, read and not post and others doing that to me and then I get paranoid.

      • #6589
        maureenanne
        Participant

        Please post! I love this thread.

      • #6591
        rachely
        Participant

        I’m now considering writing a treatise called: The Hymen: Is it no longer an issue except in period fiction?

      • #6606
        maureenanne
        Participant

        Gosh all I can think of is The Red Tent and that strange hymen ritual….

        I had one and I definitely remembered losing that tiny bit of membrane.

      • #6617
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        I think I need to read The Rent Tent…

    • #6614
      barbc624
      Participant

      [quote quote=6609]That is delicious! Lion King..King Jamie…OMG Jamie is Aslan!!! All of my childhood fantasies are fulfilled. I must confess that as a child I found The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe strangely erotic like there was something out there that was really wonderful but I did not quite know what it was. [/quote]

      I will never be able to think of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe in the same way again… :O 🙂

      • #6746
        conniebv
        Participant

        This made me laugh because there is an entire forum on FB that refers to Jamie as “our magnificent ginger lion” and credit me with the nickname because on my “Rent” recap I said

        Silly Claire, it’s just Jamie sleeping on your doorstep LIKE PLATONIC GENTLEMEN FRIENDS DO when they are staking a claim on you like a magnificent ginger lion. No worries.

        …so it comes full circle back to Outlander.

      • #6861
        patriciatrish
        Participant

        Connie, where do you recap? I would love to read more of your work.

      • #6882
        conniebv
        Participant

        Thanks! I don’t recap for anyone, per se. I did it as a goof one day on my Tumblr and then Diana shared it and it blew up (and by blew up I mean like >1000 people read them, I think, not like huge). And I keep doing them cause they make me laugh. Are you on Twitter? The link is in a pinned post on my Twitter homepage, @conniebv (and you can follow me if you like so I can follow back).
        Or if Terri doesn’t mind I can link here.

      • #6965
        Julia
        Participant

        Oh, never mind, and thanks.

      • #6972
        Lori
        Participant

        Connie – I love your recaps!! Your latest had me laughing & snorting – which brought my dog running over concerned! Always love Aretha!

        I often wonder – do you usually come up with such perfect lines for each on the first try – or do you often have several ideas that you must choose between? However you do it, it’s brilliant! Thanks! Between you and Rachel (in another post) you have made my day! (dreary rainy here today)

      • #6964
        Julia
        Participant

        Connie, can link to your recaps or tell the name of the blog please?

      • #6966
        Maggie
        Participant
    • #6684
      patriciatrish
      Participant

      This thread is amazing! Rachely, you are my hero. Michellibell, I am so jealous of your personal Magical Scottish Penis. CelticGlamazon, love your insight!

      So, yes, like most women, it used to take me a while to achieve orgasm with a new lover. But then I learned how to hold myself and move so that I was guaranteed to have one every time, if not more. It was me taking charge, whether it was on top or bottom or other positions. It’s not that my lovers didn’t care if I had one, I just knew that it was me that made it happen, and not him. Then again, I’ve never encountered a Magical Scottish Penis, so maybe I’m wrong.

      • #6693
        rachely
        Participant

        awww, thank you! I have a weird parental pride going on with this thread. I think women don’t talk openly enough about a lot of things in life. : )

      • #6694
        maureenanne
        Participant

        Speaking of sexuality in Outlander…there were times when I thought DG was exploring something with Jamie’s character. Without Claire would he have been bisexual? The guy was always fighting off male advances. I was never sure what to make of this.

    • #6705
      CelticGlamazon
      Participant

      [quote quote=6684]This thread is amazing! Rachely, you are my hero. Michellibell, I am so jealous of your personal Magical Scottish Penis. CelticGlamazon, love your insight!
      [/quote]

      Awe, Thank you. /blush

      [quote quote=6693]awww, thank you! I have a weird parental pride going on with this thread. I think women don’t talk openly enough about a lot of things in life. : )

      [/quote]

      /cough…nipple hair…cough

      So this one time…at band camp…

      [quote quote=6694]Speaking of sexuality in Outlander…there were times when I thought DG was exploring something with Jamie’s character. Without Claire would he have been bisexual? The guy was always fighting off male advances. I was never sure what to make of this. [/quote]

      As a pansexual individual myself, I really didn’t get any sense of that being likely with Jamie’s character. Especially considering his Wentworth trauma, and later P.T.S.D. surrounding the event, the fact that he was able to have a friendship with LJG speaks to Jamie’s ability to overcome adversity and his security in his own sexuality.

      Jamie is written as a beautiful man, in many ways shaped as the ideal. I can’t speak to DG’s intentions with having several different male characters having an interest in him sexually, but I can say that their interest has very little to do with his possible orientation. Anyone, attracted to a strapping red haired Scott, would probably show interest in him, regardless of orientation. There were several women throughout the series that did just that. I only remember him “fighting off” BJR, unless memory fails me LJG was quite subtle in his interests.

      🙂
      Crystal aka Celtic Glamazon

      • #6724
        maureenanne
        Participant

        I don’t think I would have felt differently about Jamie if he would have had an encounter with LJG. I just remember seeing Kiss of the Spider Woman many years ago (that’s going to date me) and I thought the love scene with Raul Julia and William Hurt was heartbreaking and beautiful. It resulted from the situation they were thrown into. Can’t remember exactly the book (was it Voyager?) but I kept wondering if DG was going to have a similar encounter with Jamie and LJG. Oh well, it never happened but I was always sort of wondering why this thread…where is it going.

      • #6725
        barbc624
        Participant

        I think the whole topic of sexuality in the OL books is a fascinating one. You’ve raised some interesting ideas about Jamie that I never thought of.

        maureenanne would you mind if I started a new thread (or you could start it since it waas your idea if you prefer) so we could explore that?

        • This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by barbc624.
      • #7010
        MrsParker
        Participant

        Maureen, have you read the Lord John Grey series? It explores their relationship a bit more in depth.

      • #7017
        maureenanne
        Participant

        Thanks! I read the first one and it was a decent story but not enough to really pull me in to the series. Might have to give this another try.

    • #6732
      maureenanne
      Participant

      I’ll leave the decision to Rachely. The topic could be a bit controversial and I don’t know why but I feel more comfortable with this smaller group.

      • #6738
        barbc624
        Participant

        Not a problem. I went ahead and started a new thread.:)

      • #6743
        rachely
        Participant

        don’t look at me! I’m not in charge of anything! : )

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