Terry Dresbach

Outlander Costume Designer

Lord John Grey

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  • #6193
    rachely
    Participant

    Since the other thread was getting long.

    Why do people find LJG so compelling?

Viewing 16 reply threads
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    • #6199
      michellibell
      Participant

      He is intelligent, witty, reserved and yet very passionate.

    • #6200
      michellibell
      Participant

      Also, if you haven’t read the LJG series, maybe that’s why there is so much indifference about him?

    • #6201
      rachely
      Participant

      I read them. I am still indifferent.

    • #6202
      michellibell
      Participant

      Really?
      IDKW he is so compelling to me…. not as much as Jamie, but I’ve really been pulled in by his story.

    • #6204
      sonyakhanum
      Participant

      I haven’t read the LJG series yet, so my opinion about him may change. Like michellibell, I like him (I say “like” because my feelings aren’t as strong as love) because of his intelligence and wit. I also enjoy his relations and interactions with others, like Jamie, Brianna, Claire, his family, etc. And there’s something about his unrequited, selfless love for Jamie that I love.

    • #6277
      CelticGlamazon
      Participant

      Because…ermergerd LJG! Really, he’s Lucius Malfoy to me, though that’s not really all of it. His primary appeal to me was in finally have an Outlander character that didn’t fit inside the heteronormative box that the majority of mainstream literature propagates. I also love the triad that occurs in the later part of the story for the same reason. DG included, and made relatively normal, characters that didn’t fit inside the one size fits all box, without making them predators.

      Since I essentially did this on Twitter today, to some of you lovely ladies, I might as well do it here. I’m queer, pan-sexual/gender queer/poly to be more specific. I’ll explain the terms if you’d like, but only if you really want to understand. That being said, whew…that forum closet was feeling a bit stifling…I adored this character because it was someone I could relate to. I felt represented, though terrified at first when I thought she was going to write him as a sexual predator.

      The other thing about LJG that appealed to me was the grace and poise with which he was able to carry himself despite the danger he was in on a daily basis for being a gay man in a world that didn’t allow for such things. You see the effort this took in the LJG books, and they made me fall in love with him more, though I’m not finished reading them. The interplay that occurred between Brianna and LJG was one of my favorite parts of Drums of Autumn. Then MOBY happened, and my ovaries exploded for LJG. The psychology of the Claire/LJG interactions was tragic and fascinating. Human nature is a hell of a thing, and it’s ability to cope with grief is utterly fascinating to me. I’m trying to avoid spoilers…so I’m limiting.

      • #6305
        conniebv
        Participant

        Crystal: 1. YAY! 2. While I am thinking of it, do you have a pronoun preference for when I refer to you in conversation that you would like used?

        And as far as LJG, probably his greatest (and sometimes only) value to me is in establishing a real gay perspective. I was horrified when I read critiques of BJR that inferred that he behaved the way he did towards Jamie because he was gay, so it was good to have a baseline to establish that HELL NO. As for the character himself, I don’t find him interesting or entertaining. He actually bores me, as does William.

      • #6307
        rachely
        Participant

        so very not gay. and I’m pretty sure Wentworth was a prime example of rape being about power not sex.

      • #6314
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        I echo Connie’s Yay!

        And thanks for expressing your thoughts on LJG. I totally agree re his grace and poise and it was very refreshing to read his POV. Although his narrative is not my favourite in the series (I really don’t care much for the political machinations, etc.), I still enjoy reading about him, especially his interactions. I wish I was more articulate, but I don’t seem to have much brain power lately (or at all).

      • #6437
        barbc624
        Participant

        First off I am so glad you emerged from that closet! I have mild claustrophobia so I hate to think of anyone in any kid of closet. Hugs to you! It makes me happy that this forum is safe enough for you to do so. Kudo’s to Terry once again. 🙂 🙂

        Secondly I have to be honest and say I haven’t given a lot of thought to LJG. I do like his friendship for Jamie, and I like the interaction they have together. I think LJG was an important relationship to Jamie because of Wentworth. Claire healed Jamie’s soul, but I think LJG ultimately healed some of the other wounds Jamie suffered due to BJR. Wentworth had to have instilled a mistrust in Jamie of others, especially of men who he perceived as gay and I think over time LJG’s friendship helped with restoring that.

        But I haven’t really looked at LJG as a character in his own right. Thanks to those of you who have, I will have to go back and think on that some more. And maybe read some of the LJG books. The only one I have read is the Scottish Prisoner because it was a piece of Jamie’s story.

    • #6296
      michellibell
      Participant

      SPOILER!!!

      When LJG finds himself across enemy lines joining the American Army, I about died. It was the one part in the whole series that I truly laughed and laughed out loud. It was written in such a way that I already felt I knew LJG well enough, and when the events were spelled out and the final sentence written, I just giggled forever.

      And during the LJG series, I also felt the danger and tension that he would be found out as a gay man – and even though I can’t identify personally with his struggle – it was one of the reasons I love DG and her literature. She was giving me a POV that I wasn’t familiar with… and it felt real (or as real as it could with me reading in my bedroom).

    • #6308
      rachely
      Participant

      Sometimes I find LJG funny and his manners are a thing to behold. I liked him for what he did for Bree. Otherwise I have no emotional response to him. I think I skipped over most of his adventures in MOBY.

    • #6316
      Tucsonlady
      Participant

      LJG is quite a complex character. I disliked him initially but grew to adore and respect him over time. There’s so much more to Lord John that his sexual orientation. The fact that Claire is jealous of LJG only endears him to me. His wicked sense of humor allows DG to write Lord John some of the best lines in Outlander. (“Child you would make an angel weep and God knows I am no angel.”) The old reference to peeling an onion and discovering complex layers fits the Lord John character and I’ve been delighted at each new layer Gabaldon has peeled back. I’ve read the Lord John series and some I’ve liked better than others. Overall I’m always thrilled to turn the page and discover that Lord John has made a new appearance in Outlander. I would be more explicit but I am trying hard to honor the no spoilers policy for this site.

      • This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Tucsonlady. Reason: Omitted words added
      • #6335
        rachely
        Participant

        I think that except for the tea room we’ve pretty much given up on not having spoilers : )

      • #6411
        Tucsonlady
        Participant

        Thanks Rachel I won’t worry about spoilers any more.

    • #6409
      AnCatDubh1980
      Participant

      Same here WRT to LJG’s intelligence, humor, and grace under pressure. Also, I’m a sucker for a character that manages to live a life of unrequited love, without being consumed by it.

      I really enjoyed the structure of the series, as well. How there are little nagging questions and hints dropped that all might not be as it seems in the early stories, and as you keep reading, more and more is revealed until you get the big payout in The Scottish Prisoner.

      Most of all, LJG just seems more familiar to me than than many of the main Outlander characters. Perhaps is more of what I’ve read in the past and books that have stayed in my head, that makes life in London, political intrigue, and battlefields more relate-able than Highland life or farming in NC. For example, I drew many parallels between the LJG books and Patrick O’Brian’s series. Many interactions between LJG and Tom Byrd reminded me of how Jack Aubrey & Killick interact, or the friendship between LJG and Harry Quarry seems similar to that of Jack Aubrey & Stephen Maturin.

      Finally, I found his series to be a much needed break from all the angst that comes with Jamie/Claire, Bree/Roger.

      • This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by AnCatDubh1980.
    • #6438
      CelticGlamazon
      Participant

      [quote quote=6305]Crystal: 1. YAY! 2. While I am thinking of it, do you have a pronoun preference for when I refer to you in conversation that you would like used?

      And as far as LJG, probably his greatest (and sometimes only) value to me is in establishing a real gay perspective. I was horrified when I read critiques of BJR that inferred that he behaved the way he did towards Jamie because he was gay, so it was good to have a baseline to establish that HELL NO. As for the character himself, I don’t find him interesting or entertaining. He actually bores me, as does William.
      [/quote]

      I can’t believe I forgot to responded to this. I prefer she because I didn’t know there was another option until three years ago, and at 34 I’m not inclined to attempt to retrain my family. It means a lot to me that you would ask. Thank you.

      I had the same response when I saw people making that connections to BJR’s behavior. /insert rage face

      I’ll not try to turn this into a conversation on the merits of consensual s&m vs the insanity of abuse, but I’m equally appalled when people imply that what happens at wentworth is BDSM because it’s not (nor is 50 shades, but that’s a different forum). The only comparison I can make is if someone were to illude that consensual sex and rape are the same because they can both involve penetration…we all know that it’s not the same thing at all. /hops off soapbox

    • #6460
      Katie (@bunnums)
      Participant

      I’ve grown to adore LJG! Everyone here has been very thoughtful about their responses, so hopefully I won’t be too repetitive.

      For me, John’s sexuality is irrelevant to why I’m drawn to him. He is intelligent, warm, articulate, heroic, respectful of everyone he meets (though he can be judgemental), self-effacing, with a sense of honor and code of conduct I admire. He has a lovely dry wit that makes me giggle. He is true to himself in what is often very trying circumstances. He won’t let himself do anything without trying to do the best that he can.

      Y’know, it’s only as I type this out that I realize LJG reminds me very much of my father, whom I adored to the ends of the earth (he passed away 8 years ago rather suddenly at only 63). Wow. There’s my moment on the therapist’s couch for the day!

      Katie

      • #6461
        rachely
        Participant

        I was missing my dad this morning (nearly 2 years for me). Is there room on that couch for me?

      • #6462
        Katie (@bunnums)
        Participant

        Always room for more! This past weekend was the anniversary of my dad’s death, so it’s been a hard week. Not a day goes by that I don’t think of him and miss him, but it’s no longer a brutally sharp pain. Most of the time.

      • #6487
        CelticGlamazon
        Participant

        My father looked a lot like Sam when he was younger, thus killing any Sam u.s.t. that I could have. It’s been 12 years since he died. I get really wierded out when there are sexy scenes and the light hits him just right…my brain tries to implode with NOPE.

    • #6546
      CelticGlamazon
      Participant

      So…Yeah…This is totally LJG for me.

      http://www.jasonisaacsphotoalbumsonline.com/movies/HPCoS/Hagrid_hut/14.jpg

      [quote quote=6460]I’ve grown to adore LJG! Everyone here has been very thoughtful about their responses, so hopefully I won’t be too repetitive.

      For me, John’s sexuality is irrelevant to why I’m drawn to him. He is intelligent, warm, articulate, heroic, respectful of everyone he meets (though he can be judgemental), self-effacing, with a sense of honor and code of conduct I admire. He has a lovely dry wit that makes me giggle. He is true to himself in what is often very trying circumstances. He won’t let himself do anything without trying to do the best that he can.

      Katie
      [/quote]

      One of my favorite aspects of the LJG character is his wit and sense of honor. The way he interacted with Claire could have been from a place of jealousy, but instead he approached her from the position of another person that loves Jamie. I wonder if I could do the same in a similar situation? Then there are the events in MOBY that cinched my interest in him as a character.

      [quote quote=6437]First off I am so glad you emerged from that closet! I have mild claustrophobia so I hate to think of anyone in any kid of closet. Hugs to you! It makes me happy that this forum is safe enough for you to do so. Kudo’s to Terry once again. :) :)
      [/quote]

      Some of the ladies on Twitter made me see that I was still welcome regardless of my Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation, and I hate living behind a facade. 🙂 Thanks for the welcome.

      [quote quote=6437]
      Secondly I have to be honest and say I haven’t given a lot of thought to LJG. I do like his friendship for Jamie, and I like the interaction they have together. I think LJG was an important relationship to Jamie because of Wentworth. Claire healed Jamie’s soul, but I think LJG ultimately healed some of the other wounds Jamie suffered due to BJR. Wentworth had to have instilled a mistrust in Jamie of others, especially of men who he perceived as gay and I think over time LJG’s friendship helped with restoring that.
      [/quote]

      I just realized that while reading the book, the perspective of LJG helping Jamie to heal actually occurred to me. It seems that I wasn’t conscious of it though. Analyzing the interactions in MOBY make that quite apparent, especially given the Claire/LJG storyline and Jamie’s response. Thanks for pointing that out. 🙂

    • #6636
      barbc624
      Participant

      And reading the responses here about LJG has given me new insight into the character. Thanks to all of you!

    • #6985
      patriciatrish
      Participant

      I like Lord John Grey, and I bought his infatuation with Jamie in Voyager. I have a hard time buying that Jamie is the love of his life and there can be no other love as Jamie is the only one who will make him happy, though.

      There’s a bittersweetness that I like, and LJG’s devotion to Jamie and to those Jamie loves is one of the best examples of unselfish love that exists in the series. But many times I wanted to say okay, LJG, time to move on and find someone else, Jamie is never going to love you the way you want him to love you. Part of this is that LJG is so good that I want him to find some peace and happiness. The other part is I wonder if there is anyone immune to the epicness of Jamie, as people seem to borderline worship him or despise him.

      • #6986
        rachely
        Participant

        okay, LJG, time to move on and find someone else,

        THIS! I mean from his books and various mentions in the OL books he’s clearly getting his physical needs met elsewhere. But HOW LONG can you love someone who doesn’t love you without it being ridiculous–at some point I want him to shake himself and say “hmmm, perhaps these feelings aren’t healthy!”

        Maybe that’s why I am ambivalent about him. He seems to be rather ambivalent about himself.

      • #6989
        Katie (@bunnums)
        Participant

        My take on this? LJG is as unreliable a narrator as Claire is. It’s when LJG is narrating that we see this undying, pining love for Jamie that can never be surpassed by anything else. According to Lord John. I always believed that it’s John’s way of making sure he doesn’t allow himself to find that love elsewhere, by always only wanting what he can’t have. He can feel noble and unselfish that way, but I believe he’s not really opening himself up to other opportunities for pure love and happiness.

        Can you tell I often live in a world of denial about my true self? LOL! I have some pretty epic stories about it.

        Or is that too much psycho-babble? 🙂

    • #7009
      MrsParker
      Participant

      Not at all, Katie, I like your thinking. By holding up Jamie as his ideal, he prevents himself from falling in love with anyone else. William is a constant reminder of Jamie for him, and while I believe LJG truly loves William for himself, and like a son, it’s just enough of Jamie to keep the thought of that one great alive for him.

      • #7011
        Katie (@bunnums)
        Participant

        I hadn’t thought about the link with William, but I think you’re right. John and Jamie will always be linked because of William, which makes it even harder for John to let go and move on.

    • #7367
      jackie
      Participant

      Late to the LJG party, but it seems to me if Claire can love Jamie when they are separated by 200 years that it is ok for Lord John Grey to love and care about Jamie over many years — in addition to their great friendship. And in a sense Lord John has moved on: he has had adventures; relationships; a career, etc. But apart from Jamie, I feel that Lord John’s sense of honor is so admirable. The casting has been so great up to now, I have high hopes for Lord John — and am really hopeful we will get to meet the teen aged version of him, too!

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