Terry Dresbach

Outlander Costume Designer

Hair thread!

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    Topic
  • #5199
    rachely
    Participant

    It deserves its own thread

Viewing 33 reply threads
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    Replies
    • #5201
      rachely
      Participant

      Of course, now that I started it I have nothing more to say, or it’s just that I realize that I’m too sick and too cranky and too busy to be allowed out in the world : )

      Though if anyone can explain nipple hair I’d be very happy. Those six, random hairs are not keeping me warm. They seem to have no purpose other than to be plucked.

      • #5208

        Rachel, I was enjoying a cup of coffee this morning, reading through the blogs, and unconsciously stroking the whicker on my chin. So I decided to follow your thread, and you open with nipple hair! I sputtered coffee all over my keyboard:) I suppose it’s because I don’t have nipple hair, and I cringed thinking of how plucking your nipple would smart, and then wondered, do they show up as unexpectedly as chin whiskers do??? I swear, they appear when you least expect them!

      • #5210
        rachely
        Participant

        Based on conversations with lots of other women (it probably says something about my friends that the topic of nipple hair comes up that often) most of us get them. They are around the nipple, not on it (plucking hurts less than it does on my eyebrows, FWIW). Just like chin whiskers they seem to show up randomly and are coarse : )

        There’s actually a scene in one of the OL books somewhere where Jamie is playing with Claire’s random nipple hair.

    • #5203
      Katie (@bunnums)
      Participant

      I think I’ll add a dissenting voice (based on the voices in the other thread) to say that I’m kinda glad Cait isn’t sporting oxter hair in the show.

      I’ll preface that by saying that I have no opinion on what women decide to do with their own body hair, as long as they are making a decision that *they* want to and not one they feel pressured into (by a partner, by society, whatever). Keep it, shave it, whatever, as long as you feel good about your decision.

      That said, here’s my reasoning for not being upset by the lack of body hair on Cait in the show.

      1) While it might be more authentic, it’s really not important to the story. Yes, the discussion of waxing and body hair in DIA is quite funny and touching, but it won’t affect the overall story if it’s not included. I’d personally rather see that scene get left to the books than cut into time given to scenes that are critical to the storyline, including Claire’s descent into PPD after the miscarriage.

      2) If Cait isn’t going to be made to wear whiskey-colored contacts (a decision I whole-heartedly support), I see no reason to make her grow her oxter hair or (I’m sure the more likely scenario) spend extra time in make-up to get hair applied for specific scenes. Scenes which are most likely to be the more erotic ones, and I’d rather have those scenes focused on the relationship between Jamie and Claire than on Claire’s hair. Which brings me to my third point…

      3) If Cait were to sport oxter hair as Claire, then I believe the discussion in the media would be about “OMG! Armpit hair on Claire!” instead of “What an amazing, strong, intelligent, etc. etc. woman Claire is!” Given the current state of our society, I’m afraid too many people would focus on the body hair instead of the important stuff. And Outlander has so many important, honest things to say about strong, independent women that I’m nervous that would get overshadowed. Yes, this is bending to societal pressure, but there’s no way to get society to change its view of body hair until we’re all comfortable with strong, brash, opinionated, intelligent, stubborn, lovely women in general.

      Thoughts?
      Katie

      • #5211
        rachely
        Participant

        This is probably beyond the scope of hair, but I think it already has moved beyond Claire as the strong woman. Hopefully it will move back in that direction, but it feels to me like it has become all about Sam and Jamie and Claire has fallen to the side. I have hopes this will right itself in the second half of the season (wolves! cows! witchcraft!) armpit hair or no.

        Okay, ONE of the reasons that the armpit hair thing bugs me is that DG’s books are so olfactory, and everyone is always commenting about how other people smell–Claire and Jamie especially about each other, and part of that is the decidedly singular smell of armpits. (If it’s not how male Jamie smells its that someone has eaten onions…some day I’ll count the times that gets mentioned!)

        (Also, I should put out there that I shave my pits, so it’s not like I’m on some sort of anti-shaving bent.)

        ETA: also, I realize that this is my weird bent, and that since we don’t have smell-o-vision it doesn’t really matter (though my husband did once examine a patent for smell-o-vision. he rejected it.)

        • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by rachely.
    • #5220
      Julia
      Participant

      I have nipple hair but only on one of them. lol About three of them 🙂 I occasionally pluck them. One bizarre chin hair that sprouts every now and then since I was 57. I ALWAYS pluck that one 😉

      Back in college I was very down with letting my leg hair grow and my pit hair too. At some point I started removing it again. I think having Claire with oxter hair would be pushing that envelope too far–but more so for Americans than Europeans.

    • #5221
      barbc624
      Participant

      [quote quote=5203]I think I’ll add a dissenting voice (based on the voices in the other thread) to say that I’m kinda glad Cait isn’t sporting oxter hair in the show.

      That said, here’s my reasoning for not being upset by the lack of body hair on Cait in the show.

      1) While it might be more authentic, it’s really not important to the story. Yes, the discussion of waxing and body hair in DIA is quite funny and touching, but it won’t affect the overall story if it’s not included. I’d personally rather see that scene get left to the books than cut into time given to scenes that are critical to the storyline, including Claire’s descent into PPD after the miscarriage.

      [/quote]

      Hi Katie;

      You make valid points about women and body hair and if by society you mean the media would use body hair as a way to overshadow the really important qualities of Claire you may be right. But my guess is that the media writers who would do that are probably not going to emphasize the things we love about Claire anyway. Most Outlander readers and viewers seem to be intelligent women who more likely than not would embrace the accuracy and even appreciate it as another way Outlander subverts the ideas of the so called ideal woman as our society has defined her.

      I do disagree about the DIA scene (or other scenes in the same tone ) and the idea that they are not relevant to moving the story along.

      So far in the series we have seen only a little of the humor that definitely exists between the our two protagonists. Most of the show’s humor has so far been given to Angus/Rupert and the other supporting characters.

      The choice for Jamie and Claire seems to always fall on the side of cutting the humor as opposed to cutting the drama. That’s okay to an extent, but at the same time I worry that by cutting so much of the humor between Claire and Jamie in order to keep their perceived more “important” dramatic scenes the show could run the risk of neglecting an important part of their relationship. There are a lot of dark/angsty scenes in the books but Diana consistently balances them out with humor. Claire and Jamie are two strongminded and stubborn characters who aren’t afraid to use laughter to relieve tension and anger as they struggle to come to terms with each other and forge a relationship.(A DIA scene that does that wonderfully is when Jamie comes home from the brothel reeking of perfume and with some suspicious marks on his body.)

      Personally I believe both the humor and drama are important and should be included but becaue of time constraints that could be at the expense of some screentime for some of the supporting characters. I could live with that because I really want to see the full development of Claire and Jamie’s relationship – the light side as well as the serious one, because to me that is what makes theirs such a well rounded and thus lasting relationship and makes it ring true to life for me.

      • #5231
        Katie (@bunnums)
        Participant

        I really believe there’s lots of humor to draw from in DIA, with or without this particular scene. Sausages, brothels, Jamie too drunk to stand, and monkeys come immediately to mind and I know there’s lots more. (It’s been a little while since I read DIA.)

        Additionally, I’m sure there will be additional scenes written and I trust the writers to do justice to the Jamie/Claire relationship. I know there are lots of opinions on this out there, but I love how the writers have handled things thus far and see no reason that won’t continue through the rest of season 1 and on into season 2 (and, knock wood, beyond!).

    • #5222
      CelticGlamazon
      Participant

      I love that a thread on Hair resulted in these varied discussions. You all are amazing. 🙂

      [quote quote=5208] So I decided to follow your thread, and you open with nipple hair! I sputtered coffee all over my keyboard:) [/quote]

      I’m glad I’m not the only one that attempted to paint their pc with drink. Lapsang Souchong doesn’t go well with HP technology. I’ll never all of that out of the keyboard.

      I’m also glad I’m not the only one that is growing into that stage of womanhood where random hairs appear from thin air. Overnight…really…inch long clear hair on my forehead, the very middle of my forehead? Biology, what have I done to you? I’m blaming the Scottish blood, because that didn’t come from the Cherokee. Ironically that whole nipple hair thing worked in reverse. As a teenager I had the 3 random nip hairs…that have disappeared as I got older. OMG they migrated to my forehead!

      [quote quote=5211]This is probably beyond the scope of hair, but I think it already has moved beyond Claire as the strong woman. Hopefully it will move back in that direction, but it feels to me like it has become all about Sam and Jamie and Claire has fallen to the side. I have hopes this will right itself in the second half of the season (wolves! cows! witchcraft!) armpit hair or no.

      Okay, ONE of the reasons that the armpit hair thing bugs me is that DG’s books are so olfactory, and everyone is always commenting about how other people smell–Claire and Jamie especially about each other, and part of that is the decidedly singular smell of armpits. (If it’s not how male Jamie smells its that someone has eaten onions…some day I’ll count the times that gets mentioned!)

      (Also, I should put out there that I shave my pits, so it’s not like I’m on some sort of anti-shaving bent.)

      ETA: also, I realize that this is my weird bent, and that since we don’t have smell-o-vision it doesn’t really matter (though my husband did once examine a patent for smell-o-vision. he rejected it.)
      [/quote]

      I’m also of the mind that the lack of body hair bugs me. I enjoyed the series because it was accurate on a visceral level. You can just smell the environments that DG talks about. Take for instance the biology of arousal being tied to pheromone production, and the location of most pheromones are in body hair. It’s raw, it’s visceral, and it’s realistic. The odds are good that by todays standards, Jamie just smelled bad, Claire also, but that is a huge part of the story for me. It’s not a modern whitewash of the realities of 18th century life, it’s dirty, it’s hard, it’s smelly and sometimes just plain disgusting.

      I’d also love to have representation for women who don’t shave. It’d be amazing to see someone in this setting, own it. I don’t think it’ll happen, and I agree that the media/fans would have a field day with it. There is such a stigma in society around body hair, which I personally find idiotic. You constantly hear people preaching that certain acts and conditions aren’t “natural” but many of these same people think body hair isn’t “natural”. It’s makes my head hurt. I don’t shave, it’s a recent thing on my part because it took me years to get over the stigma of having body hair. I no longer care what others think on the matter, but it helps that I’m surrounded by people who keep body hair, unashamedly.

      [quote quote=5220]
      Back in college I was very down with letting my leg hair grow and my pit hair too. At some point I started removing it again. I think having Claire with oxter hair would be pushing that envelope too far–but more so for Americans than Europeans.
      [/quote]

      I agree with the American vs the world perspective. Most of my non-shaving friends are European. When I told them about being stigmatized for choosing to stop shaving, they were shocked by that.

    • #5225
      Terry Dresbach
      Keymaster

      [quote quote=5203]I think I’ll add a dissenting voice (based on the voices in the other thread) to say that I’m kinda glad Cait isn’t sporting oxter hair in the show.

      I’ll preface that by saying that I have no opinion on what women decide to do with their own body hair, as long as they are making a decision that *they* want to and not one they feel pressured into (by a partner, by society, whatever). Keep it, shave it, whatever, as long as you feel good about your decision.

      That said, here’s my reasoning for not being upset by the lack of body hair on Cait in the show.

      1) While it might be more authentic, it’s really not important to the story. Yes, the discussion of waxing and body hair in DIA is quite funny and touching, but it won’t affect the overall story if it’s not included. I’d personally rather see that scene get left to the books than cut into time given to scenes that are critical to the storyline, including Claire’s descent into PPD after the miscarriage.

      2) If Cait isn’t going to be made to wear whiskey-colored contacts (a decision I whole-heartedly support), I see no reason to make her grow her oxter hair or (I’m sure the more likely scenario) spend extra time in make-up to get hair applied for specific scenes. Scenes which are most likely to be the more erotic ones, and I’d rather have those scenes focused on the relationship between Jamie and Claire than on Claire’s hair. Which brings me to my third point…

      3) If Cait were to sport oxter hair as Claire, then I believe the discussion in the media would be about “OMG! Armpit hair on Claire!” instead of “What an amazing, strong, intelligent, etc. etc. woman Claire is!” Given the current state of our society, I’m afraid too many people would focus on the body hair instead of the important stuff. And Outlander has so many important, honest things to say about strong, independent women that I’m nervous that would get overshadowed. Yes, this is bending to societal pressure, but there’s no way to get society to change its view of body hair until we’re all comfortable with strong, brash, opinionated, intelligent, stubborn, lovely women in general.

      Thoughts?
      Katie
      [/quote]

      Wow, you made a very strong case, Katie!! Might have changed my mind on the matter.

    • #5227
      Katie (@bunnums)
      Participant

      [quote quote=5225]

      Wow, you made a very strong case, Katie!! Might have changed my mind on the matter.

      [/quote]

      *blushing*

    • #5229
      Julia
      Participant

      Barb, I, too, hope that the show will include much of the humorous exchanges between Jamie and Claire. Those were some of the parts that rang truest to me because I was so reminded of all the great laughs my husband and I have had over so many years. And yes, it’s great for breaking tension 🙂

    • #5247

      When I was 12, I remember asking my grandmother why women had pubic hair, and she responded that it was there to protect the area….provide a cushion so to speak. So maybe nipple hairs are sprouted for the same reason…to protect themselves from a beard …..or *gasp* teeth! But seriously, I remember being so proud to finally have hair anywhere, couldn’t wait to shave my legs and armpits, but it’s so different with today’s young women, with all the waxing, etc. My niece is totally bare, and I told her she looked like that when she was 3. She says it’s a hygiene thing. Whatever.

      I agree with Katie. Claire’s lack of hair does not bother me. I did notice the lack of it during the wedding episode, but I don’t think it took away from the story. I was really too wrapped up in watching everything else!

      I too hope the show will include the humorous exchanges. It’s one of the main reasons I love the books.

    • #5274
      barbc624
      Participant

      [quote quote=5229]Barb, I, too, hope that the show will include much of the humorous exchanges between Jamie and Claire. Those were some of the parts that rang truest to me because I was so reminded of all the great laughs my husband and I have had over so many years. And yes, it’s great for breaking tension :)[/quote]

      If my husband and I couldn’t laugh at each other I doubt we would ever had made it together for all of these years.

      I think the whole issue may be the push/pull between a plot based story versus a character based one. I most definitely fall on the side of character. The thing is that in a visual medium plot is easier to get across – action and drama – where character can be perceived as slower and boring by some. The Outlander books are definitely character driven with plot used to further the characters development and interactions. The show has to find a way to keep the essential character focus especially on Claire and Jamie while still moving the plot so as to satisy so many viewers desire for non-stop action and drama. Not an easy task.

    • #5285
      Julia
      Participant

      Yes on the push/pull between character and plot.

      But, speaking of hair–very loosely–if they don’t have a scene with Jaime going down on Claire somewhere along the line I will be very annoyed. After all, they showed Frank doing that, and he didn’t in the book (or did he?) but Jaime did multiple times and I’m tired, tired, tired of THAT being somehow taboo whereas fellatio isn’t. So there! 😉

    • #5288
      Julia
      Participant

      Shouldn’t be so hard to portray, imo. It’s pretty clear to me that he catches her in the morning when she won’t worry so much about how her nether regions smell. Nope, no excuse, imo 🙂

      There is still a taboo about cunnilingus and it’s about time we got rid of it. Seriously. I’m sure they could think of a way to do it if the will is there.

      I mean, we can have rape and all kinds of nasty sexual assaults but not that between two loving people?

    • #5290
      barbc624
      Participant

      [quote quote=5285]Yes on the push/pull between character and plot.

      But, speaking of hair–very loosely–if they don’t have a scene with Jaime going down on Claire somewhere along the line I will be very annoyed. After all, they showed Frank doing that, and he didn’t in the book (or did he?) but Jaime did multiple times and I’m tired, tired, tired of THAT being somehow taboo whereas fellatio isn’t. So there! ;)
      [/quote]

      Frink did not go down on Claire in the book but Jamie did although I don’ tremember the details of it appearing in the book. But if they could make up a new scene with Frank there’s no reason they can’t write a scene with Jamie and I agree that they should. 🙂

      • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by barbc624.
    • #5314
      sonyakhanum
      Participant

      [quote quote=5222] I’d also love to have representation for women who don’t shave. It’d be amazing to see someone in this setting, own it. I don’t think it’ll happen, and I agree that the media/fans would have a field day with it. There is such a stigma in society around body hair, which I personally find idiotic. You constantly hear people preaching that certain acts and conditions aren’t “natural” but many of these same people think body hair isn’t “natural”. It’s makes my head hurt. I don’t shave, it’s a recent thing on my part because it took me years to get over the stigma of having body hair. I no longer care what others think on the matter, but it helps that I’m surrounded by people who keep body hair, unashamedly. [/quote]

      As a very hairy woman with Middle Eastern descent who was teased as a child for being “hairy” (even though I wasn’t as hairy as the other kids in class, but my hair is more visible because it’s black and coarse), I absolutely LOVED that scene in DIA and was like “oh hells yeah!” I surely hope they keep that scene for the second season, or at least have some reference to it.

      I don’t want to have to shave/wax everyday (it’s so irritating and time-consuming – ugh). I’ve always been envious of people who don’t have to shave everyday and can grow a little bit of stubble without having a 5 o’clock shadow on their legs. I used to wax my arms and face in addition to my legs and armpits. Now, I just can’t bother with my arms and just think that people can deal with it. I’m still working on the face and legs (I do not wax or shave regularly – I’ll say again, it’s so irritating and time-consuming), though I don’t know if I can give it up yet. I still care about what others think…if only I could stir up some courage (though the other day I did step out of the change room trying on a skirt while having hairy legs – one step at a time I guess)! I do think that a representation of a female body with hair can do wonders for people like me, even if it’s not important to the story. We’ve been so inundated with images of smooth, hairless female bodies, for once, it’d be nice to see some hair.

      Sorry, that’s my rant for the day.

      • #5331
        CelticGlamazon
        Participant

        [quote quote=5314]
        As a very hairy woman with Middle Eastern descent who was teased as a child for being “hairy” (even though I wasn’t as hairy as the other kids in class, but my hair is more visible because it’s black and coarse), I absolutely LOVED that scene in DIA and was like “oh hells yeah!” I surely hope they keep that scene for the second season, or at least have some reference to it.

        I don’t want to have to shave/wax everyday (it’s so irritating and time-consuming – ugh). I’ve always been envious of people who don’t have to shave everyday and can grow a little bit of stubble without having a 5 o’clock shadow on their legs. I used to wax my arms and face in addition to my legs and armpits. Now, I just can’t bother with my arms and just think that people can deal with it. I’m still working on the face and legs (I do not wax or shave regularly – I’ll say again, it’s so irritating and time-consuming), though I don’t know if I can give it up yet. I still care about what others think…if only I could stir up some courage (though the other day I did step out of the change room trying on a skirt while having hairy legs – one step at a time I guess)! I do think that a representation of a female body with hair can do wonders for people like me, even if it’s not important to the story. We’ve been so inundated with images of smooth, hairless female bodies, for once, it’d be nice to see some hair.

        Sorry, that’s my rant for the day.
        [/quote]

        I lived in a house with three women who didn’t shave, and that gave me the guts to do it. The first time I wore capri pants in public was only to my art studio, and the Studio Owner made snarky comments about me needing to shave, and that made me want to do the exact opposite. I started wearing skirts to the studio in solidarity for all of my non-shaving friends.

        #LegHairDontCare 🙂 I have a friend with Alopecia whose motto is “No Hair Don’t Care” and she’s my inspiration for being radically and unapologetically me.

        #Represent

      • #5351
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        #LegHairDontCare, I love it! I can see how being with others who don’t shave can definitely help in overcoming any insecurities over it.

    • #5318
      MrsParker
      Participant

      Someone on the original thread mentioned a sex scene from “Deadwood,” in which Alma Garret had an arm behind her head displaying her armpit hair. I remember seeing that and noting the armpit hair. I admired the historical accuracy of it, but I have to say it’s THE thing I remember about the scene — not the dialogue, not the bonding between her and Seth Bullock. I remembered the darn armpit hair. I wasn’t offended or disgusted by the armpit hair, it just pulled my focus and made the scene about armpit hair. (And yes, I’m deliberately using the term “armpit hair” over and over.)

      And maybe that’s me with my Western sensibilities and all, the fact that I’m not used to seeing female armpit on television or in real life. Being half-Italian, I’m a hairy creature myself.

      In “The Wedding,” I did take note that Claire lacked armpit hair, but it was just a passing thought. I wonder if it would have pulled me out of the scene in the same way it had for me during the “Deadwood” scene. Because here I am, years later, remembering “Deadwood” and Alma Garret’s armpit hair.

      Claire’s lack of armpit hair didn’t attract my notice as much as Jamie’s near lack of any body hair. I shrugged it off as Hollywood. I guess I’m just glad the scene wasn’t about armpit hair.

      • This reply was modified 7 years, 5 months ago by MrsParker.
      • #5320
        rachely
        Participant

        the longer this hiatus goes on the more SH’s manscaping bugs me 🙂 I started being annoyed by the confused state of his head hair and it grew (PUN!) to be annoyed by his lack of chest hair.

        and, oddly enough, Claire’s lack of armpit hair bugs my husband almost more than it bugs me. And it’s not like he’s a fan of pit hair.

      • #5321
        Katie (@bunnums)
        Participant

        And, see, Sam’s body hair (or lack thereof?) doesn’t bother me in the least because my husband has pretty much the exact same amount of body hair. And I can guarantee there’s no manscaping going on with my husband aside from his facial hair. It’s just the way he is. So based on my experience, I just assumed that it’s Sam’s natural state as well.

      • #5322
        rachely
        Participant

        Yeah it totally could be, I’ve no idea. I think it’s because at some point C says to J “you’re a wonderful hairy creature–even there” and that line always makes me snort.

      • #5324
        MrsParker
        Participant

        May I assume we’ve all read the delightful “Highlights and Lowlights of Jamie Fraser’s Hair” on That’s Normal? If not, please do, it’s hilarious: http://thats-normal.com/2014/11/jamie-frasers-hair/

        (rachely, I saw you on #hangoutlander last night so I know you’ve seen it, at least)

      • #5326
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        It’s so good. It truly is amazing that Sam/Jamie looks like a different person in each episode.

    • #5325
      rachely
      Participant

      oh, yeah. 🙂

      And last night’s hangoutlander with the “whatever else happens in season 2 GET SAM A NEW HAIR PERSON” 🙂

    • #5327
      rachely
      Participant

      I bet Fergus manscapes.

      • #5328
        MrsParker
        Participant

        Fergus would never manscape. He is French!

      • #5330
        CelticGlamazon
        Participant

        I disagree, I think that Fergus would be the first to manscape because he’s french. 🙂

    • #5350
      Lalou
      Participant

      I can tell you : french guys don’t. Actually they don’t seem much worried with their look nowadays.

    • #5426
      rachely
      Participant
    • #5434

      Ok, the ribbons and jewels are a bit much. I mean, what type of glue do you use for that? Ouch!

      • #5435
        rachely
        Participant

        perhaps the same glue you use to bedazzle your honeypot? 🙂

    • #5436
      michellibell
      Participant

      [quote quote=5324]May I assume we’ve all read the delightful “Highlights and Lowlights of Jamie Fraser’s Hair” on That’s Normal? If not, please do, it’s hilarious: http://thats-normal.com/2014/11/jamie-frasers-hair/

      (rachely, I saw you on #hangoutlander last night so I know you’ve seen it, at least)
      [/quote]
      I love this! So funny!

      And what’s this #hangoutlander thing….?

    • #6116
      rachely
      Participant
      • #6125
        conniebv
        Participant

        I’m part Native so I never had to shave my legs and my arms are naturally hairless. I always balked at the waxing trend. It felt very strange to me, and that’s probably my immigrant blood. I have to say, I never noticed the state of anything on either Claire OR Jamie, and I re-watched that scene at least 20 times just the one time for the recap, and several times since.
        I must be getting old.

      • #6127
        CelticGlamazon
        Participant

        [quote quote=6116]/cough/

        Salon article:
        The “full-bush Brazilian”: The hot new pubic hair trend has arrived

        [/quote]

        “Looking the part without necessarily living the life” is my favorite line in the article. I stand by my stance on hair, but again that’s easy to say when I’m single. I’m not sure I could date someone that had an issue with body hair.

      • #6129
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        I’m a very hairy woman (comes with the being middle eastern…I’m pretty sure my ancestors invented body wax, I apologize on their behalf). I have a non-hairy “white” husband (I’m hairier than him on my legs and arms…*sigh) and he’s been the best husband a hairy woman could have. I like your stance on hair and like you, I couldn’t date someone who had an issue with it since it’s a part of my identity, whether I like it or not. And, I ended up with someone who couldn’t care less about it – a total non-issue!

    • #6121
      michellibell
      Participant

      Look folks, I’m a big no-hair-down-there person. I couldn’t go full hippy because I don’t like the feel of hair on my legs, underarms, nipples (yes, I’ve had a few sprouts). So I’m good with TV Clair being well-groomed.

      Also, my MSP husband doesn’t have tons of chest hair either. Basically, I’ve married a poor man’s SH.

      • #6126
        CelticGlamazon
        Participant

        [quote quote=6121]Look folks, I’m a big no-hair-down-there person. I couldn’t go full hippy because I don’t like the feel of hair on my legs, underarms, nipples (yes, I’ve had a few sprouts). So I’m good with TV Clair being well-groomed.

        Also, my MSP husband doesn’t have tons of chest hair either. Basically, I’ve married a poor man’s SH.
        [/quote]

        We get it, he’s pure magic. Shesh…rub it in a little more! 😛

        lol

      • #6733
        maureenanne
        Participant

        From a practical perspective, I don’t think CB has any body hair left. I have the same Irish skin and hair color as CB and I can tell you that after years of waxing I have little to no hair left. My mom actually got me started waxing in college because she did not want red bumps on my skin. If I let my pits grow in I get maybe 10 really thin hairs that my husband has to put his reading glasses on to see. (now that’s an image) Given that she is an ex Victoria Secret model, I suspect that she has been waxed or lasered for years. To be historically accurate they would have to glue hair on her (yuck!) As for nipple hair I don’t have any but if I did grow one I’ll die it purple and glue a sparkle on it.

      • #6739
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        Oh good point about not having much hair left! Though years of waxing hasn’t worked on me that way haha..

        Purple sparkly nipple hair – I’m all for starting a new trend!

      • #6741
        Katie (@bunnums)
        Participant

        Love the visual of a purple sparkly nipple hair! I really needed the laugh this morning – thank you! Wonder what my husband would say if I did that to my one wiry chin hair that I pluck out every so often. LOL!

    • #6821
      wendyb
      Participant

      OK so first up this is not about any body hair except Claire’s, on her head. I am confused and not sure if it’s just the timing of the filming or what but Claire’s hair seems different in almost every scene, curlier (when Jamie reveals his virgin status), less curly (just before when Dougal gets her to drink the water), darker, shorter (when she is erm.. sitting on Jamie’s lap.. in The Wedding) then longer, then shorter again. This can change episode to episode and even within each episode. This is not really a criticism, but every single thing about this show is so meticulous that a cannot believe it’s just an oversight, because it’s obvious. In the great preview to the second half it is also obvious, really long when arguing with Gellis and when she is next to the wall with Jamie and then suddenly it’s short again for the sex-looking scene? Can someone please tell me what is going on?
      Thanks

      • #6854
        Caroline
        Participant

        First of all, I love that there is an entire “hair thread.”
        I can forgive the lack of curl continuity because as CelticGlamazon said, curly hair looks different all the time. I have naturally curly hair too, and it can look different just from going outside on a humid day. I joke that I have “special needs hair”. In fact-major props to the hair and makeup people on Claire’s hair when she wakes up in the morning. It is EXACT. I think we probably have Maril Davis to thank for this, she has curly hair and she’s probably their hair consultant. They should put that in the credits. 🙂

        Jamie’s hair…oof. I think Sam has natural curls, so I sympathize with him. I think it is the cut rather than the length. Poor guy.

        Curly hair PSA: use Living Proof’s frizz line. It is not cheap but it is worth it. I suggest a marketing tie in with them this season, Starz. Let Sam use it too, please. 🙂

        Also-I think Claire’s hair length continuity problem was most obvious in Episode 8, at the very end with Black Jack. I think her hair grew 6 inches between getting caught at the stones and nearly getting her nipples cut off. Maybe BJR was just going after that pesky stray hair? So misunderstood, that guy.

      • #6879
        wendyb
        Participant

        exactly.. longer/shorter/longer. I feel a bit like i am see-sawing through time myself. 🙂

    • #6833
      CelticGlamazon
      Participant

      [quote quote=6821]OK so first up this is not about any body hair except Claire’s, on her head. I am confused and not sure if it’s just the timing of the filming or what but Claire’s hair seems different in almost every scene, curlier (when Jamie reveals his virgin status), less curly (just before when Dougal gets her to drink the water), darker, shorter (when she is erm.. sitting on Jamie’s lap.. in The Wedding) then longer, then shorter again. This can change episode to episode and even within each episode. This is not really a criticism, but every single thing about this show is so meticulous that a cannot believe it’s just an oversight, because it’s obvious. In the great preview to the second half it is also obvious, really long when arguing with Gellis and when she is next to the wall with Jamie and then suddenly it’s short again for the sex-looking scene? Can someone please tell me what is going on?
      Thanks [/quote]

      It is my understanding that the scottish weather, and the unpredictable nature of it is playing hell on everyone’s hair. Caitriona has naturally straight hair that has been forced into curls via a perm. Having natural curly hair myself, I can only imagine the hell the stylists are going trough to keep the continuity of the hairstyles with the often wet conditions they are filming in.

      You’re not alone in your interest in the lack of continuity, it is something that stands out enough for many to have their attention drawn away from the storyline. Frankly, Jamie’s lack of hair continuity bother me just as much.

      • #6850
        rachely
        Participant

        Frankly, Jamie’s lack of hair continuity bother me just as much.

        Along with his MSP he has MSH–magic scottish hair that grows magically overnight.

        I’m still wondering who was lacing up Claire’s green plaid when they were on the road. “Hey, Angus, could you lace me up, mate?”

      • #6887
        JB
        Participant

        I’m still wondering who was lacing up Claire’s green plaid when they were on the road. “Hey, Angus, could you lace me up, mate?”

        So is this definitely not something she could do herself? (Can’t quite remember the details of each of her dresses, but I think the laces are all in front.) In the books, it’s mentioned fairly often that Claire dresses herself, but then there was that scene with Mrs. Fitz dressing her on her first day at Leoch in the show, so I’m not sure what’s what because I know next to nothing about period dress.

      • #6888
        wendyb
        Participant

        it is funny how we all notice different things. I didn’t notice this! I imagine though she slept in her clothes when sleeping outdoors (although of course she changed outfits didn’t she? hmmm) and there would have been housekeepers at inns? I have less problem with this and there are lots of day-to-day things we don’t see, pee-ing for ex, and how the HELL did she manage menstruation on the road.. perhaps somethings are best left mysterious. I know they had to cut vast small detail out to just fit it in the timeframe.. Must be a clever balance, how much detail to make them real people, but only really put stuff in that helps advance such a long complex story. AND how are they going to fit all the second book in 13-16 episodes!

      • #6892
        rachely
        Participant

        I drive MYSELF crazy because I notice everything. I also have a near eidetic memory which is more of a curse than a boon.

        I’m not sure we’ve ever seen the back of the green plaid, but it didn’t close in the front!

      • #6889
        Katie (@bunnums)
        Participant

        I’ve seen many re-enactors say that if the laces are in the front, no biggie to dress yourself. When Mrs. Fitz was dressing Claire the laces were in the back, weren’t they? But most of the other times (including the wedding) the laces were in the front.

        I’d imagine, when sleeping on the road, you would just loosen your laces for sleeping but not really get undressed. It’s not like they used nightgowns.

      • #6894
        rachely
        Participant

        I can’t speak to Scotland in 1743 only poor tenant farmers in America in 1771 but I COULD bore you if you wanted : )

      • #6895
        wendyb
        Participant

        go for it, I love that kind of stuff .. 🙂

      • #6896
        rachely
        Participant

        I would have to imply that DG was wrong–is that okay? ; )

      • #6898
        JB
        Participant

        I am obviously 100% okay with that, but I do think it’s wise you asked!

      • #6899
        wendyb
        Participant

        it’s bold.. 😉

        I imagine it’s fine, certainly by me and my outsiders observations of DG is that she would either argue her position if she was right or graciously concede if not, she has admitted correcting a few things later books, hasn’t she?

      • #6905
        rachely
        Participant

        she gave poor Germaine a girl’s name for an entire book 🙂

        —-

        random thoughts, in no particular order:

        1771, American/Virginian tenant farmers (i.e., the working poor)

        1. shift (chemise), stays, first one or two petticoats are all underwear. You’d never go out in public with just those on. Until your cap was on, your arms covered, and your boobs covered you would be–in essence–going out in your g-string and bra. (that picture of me on the whatcha making thread? totally in my underwear.) BUT if you were working on your own farm or your own house and your neighbors lived far enough away, you very might well work in your stays and petticoats. think of it like a sports bra, you might wear it to do the laundry but you probably wouldn’t entertain guests or go to the grocery store in it.

        2. stays. front or back closing? who knows. women were never idiots. if you lived alone or without a ladies’ maid or without your sisters in the house with you you’d probably make yourself front-lacing stays so you could easily get in them yourself. You can get in back lacings by yourself, usually by using a slightly different threading pattern, but it is awkward–like scratching your own back, you can get it done but you might miss spots. Though I have both kinds I mostly use my front lacing stays because when my husband/ladies maid isn’t home I need to be able to get into them easily by myself. the lacing in the back stays where it is and I loosen the front enough to shimmy it over my head and then lace the rest up by myself. It is a PITA regardless. Did I say women weren’t idiots? Now that I think on it they probably should have done away with the stays.

        In the end, front lacing stays aren’t as smooth as back lacing ones. If you had someone to help you you would choose back lacing.

        And never forget that your 18th century stays weren’t to make your waist small or for bust support, they were worn because 1) that was the style and until style changed you were naked without them and 2) for back support–think of them as the weight-lifting belt of the 18th century.

        2. you would never, ever go out without your fichu/neckerchief. the boobs only come out at night and at formal events.

        3. skirt length depended on your class. Working people (common people, poor people, most people–depending on how you want to define it) would wear shorter skirts. Easier to do chores in shorter skirts–also not set yourself on fire.

        4. all your skirts and gowns would have slits in the side to be able to access your pockets. 9″-10″ on the top of each skirt is open.

        5. pockets are tied around your waist, over your stays, under your petticoat.

        6. most women wore gowns for day-to-day (gown in this case meaning ‘dress’ not your prom or wedding gown, obviously!). gowns opened in the front. they were almost always secured by straight pins but people did have gowns that tied or laced. almost all gowns for working/farmer/poor women would be a linen or wool robe à l’anglaise or a closed-front gown.

        7. short gowns (imagine a very loose fitting jacket that would fit to your waist because it was gathered by your apron strings) also closed in the front. same deal as gowns. jackets, by contrast, are more fitted than shortgowns and most often wouldn’t be worn by farm women since it would, in the end, be more fabric to have a separate skirt/petticoat.

        8. the bodice (think renfest clothes) was, if worn, and extra layer in the cold. Despite the st. pauli girl you wouldn’t go out in your underwear.

        9. we have this idea that people all wore the same thing, but they didn’t. the “cap” was totally dependent on what you liked. some people looked good in (what were later called) mob caps, some looked good in dormeuse caps, some in lappets. you wore what looked good on your face shape. (I look like death in a lappet, can rock a dormeuse if it’s not too frilly). the cap acted not only as a modesty-item but also to catch sweat when you were cooking over an open fire.

        ————-
        I have two 2s and I’m too lazy to fix that. So, again, remember I’m talking POOR FARM WOMEN IN AMERICA right before the revolution. And i’m talking real life, not TV. Poor Terry has to walk this fine line between historically accurate and what looks good on TV.

        I’m seriously in the midst of a wicked insomnia so let me know what I missed and what else you might like to know.

      • #6909
        wendyb
        Participant

        Thanks Rachel, that is fascinating! I had no idea about the pockets in particular. I am completely on the other side of the world where our 18C “fashions” didn’t kick in until 1788 and beyond and were English/Scottish/Irish. I do remember Terry mentioned somewhere that after one part where Claire wore a longer shawl, it had to come off as you couldn’t see her waist! (Hope I haven’t misquoted). So I imagine there is a huge balance between authentic and being attractive to our eyes, IF the character is supposed to be. We are supposed to identify with them so it wouldn’t work if they were shockers eh. It’s nice to chat, love social media and forums for this stuff, it adds so much to show.. hope you get some sleep.

      • #6912
        rachely
        Participant

        where are you?

        I find pockets fascinating (HISTORYNERD). Some of them are soooo intricately embroidered for something no one was going to ever see!

      • #6913
        wendyb
        Participant

        Ba HAR HAR, I am a bit of a history nerd as well, not pockets, up.until.now.

        Adelaide, Australia.

      • #6880
        wendyb
        Participant

        yes, it is unfortunate because I don’t want my attention drawn away, hopefully now the curl/perm is all sorted it will straighten itself out (see what I did there!)

      • #6881
        rachely
        Participant

        There can NEVER be too many hair puns!

    • #6855
      Katie (@bunnums)
      Participant

      [quote quote=6854]
      Also-I think Claire’s hair length continuity problem was most obvious in Episode 8, at the very end with Black Jack. I think her hair grew 6 inches between getting caught at the stones and nearly getting her nipples cut off. Maybe BJR was just going after that pesky stray hair? So misunderstood, that guy.
      [/quote]

      In fact, that scene with BJR at the end of episode 8 was filmed at a different time than the rest of the episode, with a different director. Some of the hair length issue is likely because the episodes weren’t filmed in strict order. And I have no idea how hard it would be to manage that continuity when you’re re-jiggering time based on filming order.

      • #6857
        rachely
        Participant

        and i think they had to re-film the wedding, so his hair was longer at that point. which does not explain why it was hideous, just why it was long.

      • #6877
        wendyb
        Participant

        this link needs a ‘like’ button!

    • #6876
      wendyb
      Participant

      yes, it’s the continuity issues that concerns me, the dramatically short hair and then long again. I can ‘not notice’ the curly/non curly thing much more than suddenly it being so different in length (although the suddenly freakish curl changes when they were discussing getting married was jarring). And because hair length is used so much to donate time, time passing, it looks weird when suddenly Claire has short hair, like it’s a different time, it’s *almost* like it’s someone else. I am possibly being overly picky, but just as they would hardly change someone’s hair colour scene to scene or plonk a different wig on.. I just cannot fathom in such a meticulous show where they can get 100’s of buttons to match they could possibly think we wouldn’t notice! anyway whinge over. 🙂 first world problem eh.

    • #6883
      CelticGlamazon
      Participant

      [quote quote=6876]yes, it’s the continuity issues that concerns me, the dramatically short hair and then long again. I can ‘not notice’ the curly/non curly thing much more than suddenly it being so different in length (although the suddenly freakish curl changes when they were discussing getting married was jarring). And because hair length is used so much to donate time, time passing, it looks weird when suddenly Claire has short hair, like it’s a different time, it’s *almost* like it’s someone else. I am possibly being overly picky, but just as they would hardly change someone’s hair colour scene to scene or plonk a different wig on.. I just cannot fathom in such a meticulous show where they can get 100’s of buttons to match they could possibly think we wouldn’t notice! anyway whinge over. :-) first world problem eh.
      [/quote]

      Me thinks that the stylist don’t have the same obsessive need for accuracy that our dear Terry has. (that was a compliment, I’m the same way)

    • #6884
      Katie (@bunnums)
      Participant

      I’ll admit that I don’t notice things like difference in hair length from episode to episode, or if I do it doesn’t stick in my memory. When it comes to my entertainment, I tend to consume at a high level and let everything wash over me for pure enjoyment factor without noticing a lot of details.

      But that’s just me. There’s not a right and wrong way to consume entertainment, after all. 🙂 We all have our “things”, and I certainly do have my own. LOL!

      • #6885
        wendyb
        Participant

        That’s kind of a good way to be really. it certainly is a terrific show. 🙂

      • #6900
        sonyakhanum
        Participant

        I haven’t noticed Claire’s hair continuity. But a possible reason why I don’t notice it is that my hair drastically changes day to day, and even within the same day (totally uncontrollable). Some days it looks longer and flat, other days it’s voluminous and then there are days where people ask if I’ve cut my hair when I haven’t actually done anything different to it.

        I DID notice issues with Jamie’s hair

        • This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by sonyakhanum.
    • #6890
      conniebv
      Participant

      I try to guess the order scenes were filmed by the tightness of Cat’s perm.

    • #6891
      MrsParker
      Participant

      I remember on Star Trek: Voyager years ago, the ship was hit by something and Captain Janeway went flying across the bridge, her hair flying out of her updo. Next shot, her hair was back in place.

      I remember on BSG seeing various hair inconsistency on Starbuck and Boomer that made me say, “huh?”

      Maybe I notice because my own hair is such a problem for me (seriously, I think it’s trying to contact alien life sometimes), but I just figure that hair continuity is not Ron Moore’s thing. I notice it the most on his shows. But he gets so much right and does so much AWESOME that I can’t even care about the hair. Much. Okay, fine –I care a little bit.

      • #6893
        rachely
        Participant

        I notice the hair on the Sixes is all over the place. I assume because all the Sixes had different hair so they Tricia and the hair people must have had a hell of a time.

    • #6915
      maureenanne
      Participant

      Also-I think Claire’s hair length continuity problem was most obvious in Episode 8, at the very end with Black Jack. I think her hair grew 6 inches between getting caught at the stones and nearly getting her nipples cut off. Maybe BJR was just going after that pesky stray hair? So misunderstood, that guy.
      [/quote]

      As an aside, while watching BJR bend Claire over to cut off the stray silver nipple hair, I could not help but notice that Claire is in soft calf skin shoes…when she was captured she had these long boots on. I could drive myself crazy with these details but I am certain there was a reason for this?

      • #6916
        rachely
        Participant

        stray silver nipple hair

        oh! that’s what he was doing! he was just grooming her! : )

        we should start a “anal retentives among us” thread! Between you all and the show and JB and me and the books we could make quite a list!

        • This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by rachely.
        • This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by rachely.
      • #6921
        maureenanne
        Participant

        All in good fun…not to offend anyone 🙂

      • #7142
        maureenanne
        Participant

        Saw 50SOG Saturday and I just wanted to report back that Anastasia had (ahem) body hair. It did not detract at all from her loveliness.

    • #7168
      rachely
      Participant

      Beards, armpit hair, sexism, racism and the zombie apocalypse

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/olivia-cole/beards-and-armpits-the-si_b_6691880.html

      • #7170
        maureenanne
        Participant

        Remember Skipper Barbie? You turned her arm and she “grew up”. It’s all about Barbie. I would like to see them paint on nipples and pubic hair as a start. I’ve never seen the Zombie show but Barbie zombie makes no sense.

    • #7262
      colleen
      Participant

      My preference would have been to have Claire have underarm hair, but I can easily understand the decision to nix it. It’s not quite the same, but I worked in the magazine industry where we’d have conversations about removing telephone wires, ceiling fans, and anything “unsightly” from images, so as not to distract readers. So while I prefer erring on the side of realism, I get the aesthetic concerns.

      What I do appreciate about the show is its commitment to Claire’s curly hair. There is something (sadly) subversive about a woman with dark, frizzy hair being the star of a show, and portrayed as a sexual being to boot. In the hands of another creative time, I could easily see Claire’s hair getting the Hollywood treatment of Victoria’s Secret model beach waves rather than Claire’s cloud of curls–palatable curls, in other words.

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